this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2024
662 points (100.0% liked)

Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ

1445 readers
51 users here now

⚓ Dedicated to the discussion of digital piracy, including ethical problems and legal advancements.

Rules • Full Version

1. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy

2. Don't request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote

3. Don't request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs

4. Don't submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others



Loot, Pillage, & Plunder

📜 c/Piracy Wiki (Community Edition):


💰 Please help cover server costs.

Ko-Fi Liberapay
Ko-fi Liberapay

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] ptz@dubvee.org 173 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (22 children)

I think it's more a generational gap in basic computer skills.

Millennials grew up alongside modern computing (meaning the two matured together). We dealt with everything from BASIC on a C64 to DOS and then through Windows 3 through current. We also grew up alongside Linux. We understand computers (mostly) and the (various) paradigms they use.

Gen Z is what I refer to as the iPad generation (give or take a few years). Everything's dumbed down and they never had to learn what a folder is or why you should organize documents into them instead of throwing them all in "Documents" library and just using search. (i.e. throw everything in a junk drawer and rummage through it as needed).

As with millennials who can't balance a checkbook or do basic household tasks, I don't blame Gen Z for not learning; I blame those who didn't teach them. In this case, tech companies who keep dumbing everything down.

Edit: "Balance a checkbook" doesn't have to mean a physical transaction log for old school checks. It just means keeping track of expenditures and deposits so that you know the money in your account is sufficient to cover your purchases. You'd be surprised how many people my age can't manage that.

[–] jabathekek@sopuli.xyz 78 points 1 month ago (4 children)

you should organize documents into them instead of throwing them all in “Documents” library and just using search.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 39 points 1 month ago (4 children)

nobody look at my downloads folder. It's fine. I promise.

[–] ouRKaoS@lemmy.today 15 points 1 month ago

Organizing my downloads has been on my to do list for... Four, I think? Yeah, four... phones...

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] classic@fedia.io 41 points 1 month ago

I appreciate this measured take. Whenever generational differences get brought up, they oftentimes seemed framed as if generations are biologically different creatures or willfully choosing to be stupid in some sector. In all, or at least must cases, it's what you suggest: people responding and developing based on what the environment has presented them.

[–] RecluseRamble@lemmy.dbzer0.com 41 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Millennials grew up alongside modern computing (meaning the two matured together). We dealt with everything from BASIC on a C64 to DOS and then through Windows 3 through current. We also grew up alongside Linux

Only the oldest millenials did. When the youngest were born, the internet and Windows 95 were readily available and they were in middle school when the iPhone came out.

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 27 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Trouble is that there are enough millennials who also have absolutely no clue about computers. Between dude-bros who won't touch that nerd shit and girls who got told by their nerd boyfriend's that the computer will start to burn if they click anything besides their allowed icons a vast majority of people are glad if they know how to turn on the computer and print out their document.

Yes, there are probably a lot more computer literate millennials than in other generations. But even there it pretty much depends on family and friends. And in a pirate community on Lemmy most of the people will belong to the tech savvy bubble.

In our friend group even the most computer illiterate kid knew how to set up a LAN without a DHCP server. Their younger siblings had no idea a LAN was even a thing.

My wife's ex always told her that she couldn't understand how to work with a computer. Her older brother who works in IT wouldn't explain anything to her either. They were pretty astonished when they heard that she had installed a GPU by herself (which most people here know is trivial). Which gave her enough confidence to fix her VCR by herself.

[–] Godort@lemm.ee 23 points 1 month ago

They were pretty astonished when they heard that she had installed a GPU by herself (which most people here know is trivial). Which gave her enough confidence to fix her VCR by herself.

Anyone can learn any skill if they actually invest the time.

And regarding the older brother, you learn pretty quickly working help desk that users generally don't care what the problem is or why it happened. They just want to get back to work and not have it happen again. After a while you get conditioned to just be friendly and solve the issue without explaining what you're doing or why.

[–] Soluna@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 1 month ago

This is part of why I, who am part of Gen Z, am actually really thankful that I didn't get access to iPad until 9 (first gen, it might still be around here somewhere, kinda wonder if it'll ever become a relic) and phone until 13, but did have access to a super old windows computer. It taught me how to install mods in Minecraft. It was astronomically difficult for me at that time with my limited understanding and all the fake green "Download here!" buttons that kept duping me and installing tons of bloatware and even malware onto the PC (yet another reason why AdBlock is a privacy and security concern, honestly deadass don't let kids use a computer without it). But eventually I caught on and got good at identifying the scams from a young age and was able to teach other kids, and even eventually got into command stuff and writing my own mods. I memorized all of the block and item IDs before the flattening, but after that I was so disheartened that all my memorization was useless I kinda just stopped and never got really good at it. But still, just from that alone my computer knowledge was way ahead of other people's around that time, and you might even say it set the foundation for my now linux-using open-source-contributing fediverse-loving self hahaha

load more comments (17 replies)
[–] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 89 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Generational wars doesn't do anyone any favors.

[–] Ilandar@aussie.zone 20 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Acknowledging differences is not "war".

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] volkerwirsing@feddit.org 20 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Yeah and let's not pretend that everyone back in 2002 was eMuling or torrenting and cracking videos games. I knew so many people who failed at ripping a CD to MP3 or copying it with a CD burner.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] HouseWolf@lemm.ee 85 points 1 month ago (14 children)

I'm an older GenZ born in the late 90s and I've had to show a few younger peers how to torrent recently.

The idea of you needing a "special" program just for downloading a file seems to throw some of them off.

I do know a few young people are tech/programming wizards but "generally tech savy" people seem to be declining. It's either you're really into it or barely know anything outside popular apps.

One other thing I've noticed, People just seem to be more paranoid about downloading stuff not already installed on their devices. Which its good people give at least a bit of a shit about security but convincing people Firefox isn't a virus gets a bit annoying (Yes I've had that conversation).

[–] CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 33 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

People just seem to be more paranoid about downloading stuff not already installed on their devices.

I see this as a natural byproduct of Google, Apple, et al. "Walled Garden"

They want you to consume only from them and only what they approve of. Granted Apple is far more on the latter side than Google but even Google fought tooth and nail to keep Epic from having their own store.

I don't interact much with people who are younger than me but I feel like the age of tinkering might not be as strong with them as it was for me. PCs were the predominant form factor and you could literally take it apart and put it back together with just a screwdriver. You can't do that with laptops or phones at least not without a lot of other specialized tools. This isn't their fault either since device manufacturers have really tried to make it difficult to do anything that they don't control.

Hell chrome is the best example of this. Google, whose business is selling your personal data for ads, is preventing the use of ad blockers. Firefox is mostly developed by Mozilla with a small handful of volunteers. It's already showing signs of enshittification. We don't have a viable third option.

It will only be a matter of time before these tech companies start having brain drains due to their own greed.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (13 replies)
[–] mizuki@lemmy.blahaj.zone 75 points 1 month ago (17 children)

as a high schooler with a special interest in computers, it's genuinely surprising how poor most of my peers computers skills are. most of my peers don't even know the very basics of folder structures.

also unrelated, let's all love lain

[–] breakcore@discuss.tchncs.de 69 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

special interest

poor skill of peers

(I'm totally with you though)

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] bane_killgrind@slrpnk.net 18 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Twenty years ago when I was 13, I started doing web stuff. This was back when everything was super simple, so everything to get a webserver up was super manual. I'll mention port forwarding at my current job and there's this slice of people that are 28-40 years old that know what I'm talking about.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (15 replies)
[–] SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org 73 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I think the gap stems from need. Most people only learn what they absolutely need to. My sister and I are just 3 years apart in age. Yet I am pretty familiar with tech, while she knows next to nothing. I was always there to fix whatever broke. Even now she knows that if she needs to watch something, she can just ask me to add it to my Jellyfin server. I often have to remote into her system to fix stuff.

The Gen Z we're talking about here mostly grew up using phones, and phone OSes do their best to hide any complexity away from the user. So they never learnt anything. I'm also technically Gen Z (very early), but growing up in rural India, I had to teach myself how to pirate since streaming wasn't a thing yet (our internet was too slow for that anyway), and the local theater didn't play anything except local mainstream cinema.

[–] __ghost__@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Jellyseerr is your friend. She can request whatever and you can get alerts to add it. Even if your stuff isn't automated

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Pyflixia@kbin.melroy.org 54 points 1 month ago (3 children)

No.

I've pointed this out on another account on this very community through KBin Social.

And I was talking about how lazy and entitled pirates across all ages have become overtime. That we were losing more and more sources that had withstood a long standing of time. And one moment everyone is going "RAH RAH! HYDRA! CUT ONE DOWN AND MORE COME UP!" but when we lose some of which that have yet to return or take it's place, the attitude grows weak. Almost desperate.

And it's due in part how most of the pirates just take and take, but never give back. On r/piracy and sometimes on here, people are making posts wondering where they can get free stuff and how they can get free stuff. They don't care about the technicalities, they don't care about the cause of piracy, they don't care at all. It's always "give me free shit, thanks, bye". There are few pirates out there doing the work and it's just so that these lazy and entitled pirates can just take and take.

But when we lose sources, they scatter away like cockroaches and all that they can think about is asking where it is that they can get free shit. It's almost like consumerism but for free shit, it's annoyingly disturbing. It's not about wanting the new product, it's about wanting the source to mooch off from.

I sadly predict in time that the whole hydra ideology will just simply become the way the Pirate Bay has become, just a symbol, but will it mean anything? It'll be so if this whole trend continues and all generations are just as guilty to doing it.

[–] tenchiken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 30 points 1 month ago

The best pirates are librarians with legit ethics.

Preserve human knowledge and make it available to everyone.

I hate that you are right about mostly just greedy dipshits pissing in the high seas without contributing.

We should have taken up arms after Aaron Swartz...

[–] christian@lemmy.ml 24 points 1 month ago

I agree with the sentiment that it's very easy to underestimate the harm done by the loss of a major site or scene group, but I'm not sure I really agree with much else you've written here. In particular:

And it’s due in part how most of the pirates just take and take, but never give back. On r/piracy and sometimes on here, people are making posts wondering where they can get free stuff and how they can get free stuff. They don’t care about the technicalities, they don’t care about the cause of piracy, they don’t care at all. It’s always “give me free shit, thanks, bye”.

The people making those posts have minimal exposure to piracy. This is getting your feet wet. For me, contributing my share is saying that I think these users deserve access. Yeah, they wouldn't have a place on a private tracker, that's not a problem because they're not on a private tracker, and if they join one they won't stay for long if they neglect seeding.

I'm sure a lot of these people will continue their lives without seeding or contributing. I won't say I endorse that, but I'm cool with it, and even if I wasn't I still don't think an argument can made that the harms of any hypothetical injustice here outweigh the benefits from a single dedicated pirate that began their journey this way.

I care about uploader counts, about seeder counts, about the wellbeing of the people who maintain the infrastructure. I'm invested. I don't care about download counts. Looking at an unseeded download as a loss in seeder count makes exactly the same amount of sense to me as looking at a download as a lost sale. I think it's morally right to support pirates who will not end up contributing, and beyond that I think treating them with kindness a net plus for the cause, because less than 100% of them will just say “give me free shit, thanks, bye”.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 53 points 1 month ago (2 children)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Auli@lemmy.ca 51 points 1 month ago (4 children)

It’s like cars. Almost everyone has one and can drive it but don’t know how it works. Computers have become that. There are some who know or have an idea of how it works and others who can use it but have no idea.

[–] tetris11@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Yeah but cars have become increasingly more complex over the last 20 years. You basically need an EEPROM arduino kit these days just to get the fucking diagnostics out of the car, because someone decided that analog circuits were just too much bulk

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] collapse_already@lemmy.ml 42 points 1 month ago (5 children)

I can't even tell you what us Gen Xers did because I am not sure if the statutes of limitations have run.

Vaguely, it involved ftp and file repositories hosted unwittingly by large companies plus restricted IRC channels to discuss the locations of such places.

[–] a1studmuffin@aussie.zone 18 points 1 month ago

I remember installing a keylogger on the school library computers, then "accidentally" disconnecting the dialup internet and asking the teacher to type the login credentials again. I bet the ISP was confused when they saw so many concurrent logins after hours, all playing Quake and downloading huge files.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Nexy@lemmy.sdf.org 37 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I seen teens without being able to make a folder in windows because they only use phones, so.

[–] tate@lemmy.sdf.org 21 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I truly hate that phones don't readily have file browsers and folders, and when you do add them, they aren't effective. Mostly that would be useful when moving files between phone and computer. It's not simple even to get the computer to mount the phone's drive, probably because everyone is fine with having all their files "in the cloud."

[–] zod000@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Super annoying because all the earlier smart phones did have all that, even early Android. The OSes just keep getting more dumbed down and locked down to the point that I went from a phone enthusiast to despising all smart phones.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There's torrent clients on Android. You don't need a computer

[–] zabadoh@ani.social 12 points 1 month ago

Torrenting on Android does exist, but it's such a battery suck that seeding is unsustainable unless your mobile device is plugged in all the time. Which makes it not-so-mobile.

And then there's mobile plan data limits.

[–] Xianshi@lemm.ee 32 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Teach those that dont know and continue to seed. 🏴‍☠️🛶

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] magic_smoke@links.hackliberty.org 29 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

No most millennials are also too lazy because they stopped giving a shit about computers when it stopped being a requirement to use the internet like 10-15 years ago because smartphones.

Most who did haven't in at least a decade, and wouldn't unless you put a gun to their head.

For some reason the vast majority of people seem to just want to ignore the machines that literally run our society, and its fucking maddening.

FFS the amount of people who I work with in IT and even then don't really give a shit about their daily computing is absolutely fucking baffling.

Its really just a smattering of people from all ages who actually know how to use a computer because they're actually interested in doing so.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 23 points 1 month ago

Some people just stick to the ez pz apps and don't care about their privacy or to understand what they're working with. With modern phones and pc's that treat people like toddlers, a lot of people don't develop skills further than that

[–] incognito08@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Without seeds, torrents become almost useless, and many pirate sites offer rare and hard-to-find movies/animes whose torrent versions never download because their seeds are practically extinct forever. So I don't think this is a weak complaint. If torrents didn't have this weakness I would always choose to use them but...

[–] Petter1@lemm.ee 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The usenet has many treasures

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] odium@programming.dev 21 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm gen z born in the early 200xs and I torrent (legal Linux ISOs ofc)

[–] funkajunk@lemm.ee 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

How else are you going to get your hands on the latest build of Hannah Montana Linux?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] r00ty@kbin.life 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Gen X: Oh, internet eh? So we don't need to keep copying umpteenth generation video cassettes of that dodgy pirate movie any more.

[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 month ago

Elder Gen-X: "I spent all weekend making this mix tape off of songs on the radio. I even got London Calling without the DJ!"

[–] fl42v@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 month ago

Idk, being born in the early 2000s didn't make torrenting any harder. Dare I say, it was the opposite: in the 10s, when I got into all this this, there already was a bunch of well-established trackers with tons of content one could use without fear of downloading a piece of malware instead of a new shiny game, for example.

[–] lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Boy, I remember how desperate all of Germany was when kino.to went down. It took at least a week until everyone found an alternative!

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 14 points 1 month ago

The switch from using shit like Napster/LimeWire/eDonkey/etc to BitTorrent was fairly easy. It was the lack of the torrent app itself not having a file search in it that made things feel like they went backwards.

Before Napster and the rest, you'd do a web search for "warez" and sift through shady sites to find a working download link. After Napster, you'd just search for what you want in the app. I know there are torrent apps that do this now, but I don't know how wide of a reach they actually have. I still just go to a tracker's website and find things to magnet link.

[–] potemkinhr@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

If you had real shitty internet back in the day (read 56k modem) and you liked to play russian roulette you would dump satellite traffic with a skystar2 DVB-S card. You never knew what you'd get realistically, found some true gems underneath mountains of coal in the day of (still) unfiltered internet.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] yuri@pawb.social 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

so i do torrent stuff when i want to keep it, but the vast majoriy of my media i just stream from whatever shady site i happen to find it on first. it’s too quick and easy.

protip if you ever have trouble finding anything, just use yandex. russia doesn’t give a SHIT about copyright violations or DMCA complaints.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›