this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2024
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Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ

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[–] ptz@dubvee.org 171 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (13 children)

I think it's more a generational gap in basic computer skills.

Millennials grew up alongside modern computing (meaning the two matured together). We dealt with everything from BASIC on a C64 to DOS and then through Windows 3 through current. We also grew up alongside Linux. We understand computers (mostly) and the (various) paradigms they use.

Gen Z is what I refer to as the iPad generation (give or take a few years). Everything's dumbed down and they never had to learn what a folder is or why you should organize documents into them instead of throwing them all in "Documents" library and just using search. (i.e. throw everything in a junk drawer and rummage through it as needed).

As with millennials who can't balance a checkbook or do basic household tasks, I don't blame Gen Z for not learning; I blame those who didn't teach them. In this case, tech companies who keep dumbing everything down.

Edit: "Balance a checkbook" doesn't have to mean a physical transaction log for old school checks. It just means keeping track of expenditures and deposits so that you know the money in your account is sufficient to cover your purchases. You'd be surprised how many people my age can't manage that.

[–] lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network 1 points 4 days ago

Millenials grew up using BASIC on Windows 3?!

Millenials were teenagers possibly learning coding starting from 1995, the world was using C++ on Windows 95 at best.

[–] jabathekek@sopuli.xyz 76 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

you should organize documents into them instead of throwing them all in “Documents” library and just using search.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 39 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

nobody look at my downloads folder. It's fine. I promise.

[–] ouRKaoS@lemmy.today 14 points 2 weeks ago

Organizing my downloads has been on my to do list for... Four, I think? Yeah, four... phones...

[–] jlow 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Datahoarder checking in:

Never delete 🫡

[–] Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Aren't most (sensible) data hoarders very organized? You want to save shit and be able to find it later lol

[–] jlow 1 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, but downloading new stuff is even more exciting then sorting the already downloaded stuff 😸

[–] overload@sopuli.xyz 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] compostgoblin@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I’ve been interested in Zettelkasten for a few years, since I discovered Obsidian, but I’ve never been able to quite get the hang of it enough to make it stick

[–] overload@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Obsidian user as well. I like to think of it that tags are folders.

When you put something in a folder, you have to choose one of the files identities. Tags more or less allow you to assign a file to any number of groups.

So if you're writing about an NPC in a DnD campaign, for example: That NPC will exist in a certain place. He will be associated with particular guilds and he will have certain moves that you might want to keep track of. You can later easily search by a guild or a move or a place and there will be a link to that NPC and others that share those indentifying characteristics.

A big advantage of zettelkasten is that you don't need to really worry about file management in the sense of needing to make exclusionary choices.

[–] classic@fedia.io 41 points 2 weeks ago

I appreciate this measured take. Whenever generational differences get brought up, they oftentimes seemed framed as if generations are biologically different creatures or willfully choosing to be stupid in some sector. In all, or at least must cases, it's what you suggest: people responding and developing based on what the environment has presented them.

[–] RecluseRamble@lemmy.dbzer0.com 40 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Millennials grew up alongside modern computing (meaning the two matured together). We dealt with everything from BASIC on a C64 to DOS and then through Windows 3 through current. We also grew up alongside Linux

Only the oldest millenials did. When the youngest were born, the internet and Windows 95 were readily available and they were in middle school when the iPhone came out.

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 27 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Trouble is that there are enough millennials who also have absolutely no clue about computers. Between dude-bros who won't touch that nerd shit and girls who got told by their nerd boyfriend's that the computer will start to burn if they click anything besides their allowed icons a vast majority of people are glad if they know how to turn on the computer and print out their document.

Yes, there are probably a lot more computer literate millennials than in other generations. But even there it pretty much depends on family and friends. And in a pirate community on Lemmy most of the people will belong to the tech savvy bubble.

In our friend group even the most computer illiterate kid knew how to set up a LAN without a DHCP server. Their younger siblings had no idea a LAN was even a thing.

My wife's ex always told her that she couldn't understand how to work with a computer. Her older brother who works in IT wouldn't explain anything to her either. They were pretty astonished when they heard that she had installed a GPU by herself (which most people here know is trivial). Which gave her enough confidence to fix her VCR by herself.

[–] Godort@lemm.ee 23 points 2 weeks ago

They were pretty astonished when they heard that she had installed a GPU by herself (which most people here know is trivial). Which gave her enough confidence to fix her VCR by herself.

Anyone can learn any skill if they actually invest the time.

And regarding the older brother, you learn pretty quickly working help desk that users generally don't care what the problem is or why it happened. They just want to get back to work and not have it happen again. After a while you get conditioned to just be friendly and solve the issue without explaining what you're doing or why.

[–] Soluna@lemmy.blahaj.zone 16 points 2 weeks ago

This is part of why I, who am part of Gen Z, am actually really thankful that I didn't get access to iPad until 9 (first gen, it might still be around here somewhere, kinda wonder if it'll ever become a relic) and phone until 13, but did have access to a super old windows computer. It taught me how to install mods in Minecraft. It was astronomically difficult for me at that time with my limited understanding and all the fake green "Download here!" buttons that kept duping me and installing tons of bloatware and even malware onto the PC (yet another reason why AdBlock is a privacy and security concern, honestly deadass don't let kids use a computer without it). But eventually I caught on and got good at identifying the scams from a young age and was able to teach other kids, and even eventually got into command stuff and writing my own mods. I memorized all of the block and item IDs before the flattening, but after that I was so disheartened that all my memorization was useless I kinda just stopped and never got really good at it. But still, just from that alone my computer knowledge was way ahead of other people's around that time, and you might even say it set the foundation for my now linux-using open-source-contributing fediverse-loving self hahaha

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 6 points 2 weeks ago

You say that like other generations don't also just save everything to the desktop.

It's not about generations at all. Some people who grew up with early computers may have used them but never really "got it".

[–] lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 weeks ago

Your analysis fits neatly into what the book Because Internet describes as different waves of "internet people". First were geeks who went there before it was mainstream, second us millennials growing up as it is getting mainstream, alongside older folks forced to use it at work or voluntarily at home. Third wave are GenZ growing up when everything is easy already and, ironically, also even older folks now that it's accessible for them.

[–] DeathsEmbrace@lemm.ee 5 points 2 weeks ago

Almost like the education system was meant as a long term investment to turn out a profit instead of “education”

[–] Hydra_Fk@reddthat.com 4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Who owns a checkbook? I also didn't need to learn cursive, or how to take care of a horse. If you want to learn something you will.

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 14 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

"Balance a checkbook" doesn't have to mean a physical transaction log. It just means keeping track of expenditures and deposits so that you know the money in your account is sufficient to cover your purchases. You'd be surprised how many people my age can't manage that. Also, at first, I read that as "Who owns a Chromebook?" lol.

Outside of using cursive for my signature, yeah, I've never used it in real life.

If you want to learn something you will.

True, but we learned computing because we had to.

[–] Hydra_Fk@reddthat.com 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You don't learn to drive in a round about, or use the automatic checkout, or a thousand other things that have changed...

[–] Technofrood@feddit.uk 2 points 2 weeks ago

I mean depending on the country you almost certainly learnt to drive in a roundabout (quadrupley so if you were learning in Milton Keynes)

[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

By the time I was born, checks weren't in regular use here anymore. I've never seen one in real life. I'm 27

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You probably do not know b/c reddthat has downvotes disabled, but people are downvoting your comment.

I find it the height of irony that your comment, which is relevant and contributes to the conversation, is receiving the "*I* personally do not like this idea" treatment.

A comment that aims to provide a more balanced perspective, to round out the discussion beyond "things should be the way that I am most comfortable with", and offering not only logical facts but very relevant personal experience.

~~Reddit~~ Lemmy can be so toxic sometimes. :-|

[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 6 points 2 weeks ago

I like the lack of downvotes, it's nice. I get to focus on arguments being made. If someone wants to tell me they disagree, they're going to have to actually tell me

[–] zerofk@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago

Gen X: don’t quote the ancient piracy to me, Millennial. I was there for BBS and Napster.

[–] DJDarren@thelemmy.club 1 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Born in late ‘80, I’m borderline. A Xennial, I guess.

Just yesterday I was groping on Mastodon that so much of Linux is done via the command line, which messes me up because I’ve only ever really used OSs with a GUI. Sure, we had a family C64, but my brother would load the games for me. Then we got a ‘proper’ Windows PC, where I stayed until I got my first Mac in ‘07.

I’m not unfamiliar with doing stuff in Terminal, but all I really do is follow instructions I find online.

[–] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

You must have big hands if you can grope a mastodon!

(In all seriousness youtube "command line basics" or "bash basics" and follow along with a video or two like it's a class, helped me when I ditched windows.)

[–] entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 weeks ago

FYI late 80s is a Millenial. Xennial is like 79-80. Millenials go from 81-96

[–] Kyatto@leminal.space 1 points 2 weeks ago

I mean that is usually all it takes, and as time passes you learn, provided you have the will to do exactly what you are doing and you have an interest in understanding it.

[–] kratoz29@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago

I can take that argument but also, how is that people is that unaware of how to do these kinds of process, many of those people study or work in something that relates with tech, are you telling me it is just because they didn't learn of use it in their earlier days?

Also, it is way easier to pirate nowadays than before, that evolved too you know?

I'd say the biggest culprit is laziness... Or entitlement.