LGBTQ+

Not sure which post you're talking about, but in general, yeah. Any kind of excusing of transphobia is 100% not tolerated here. I'm not a mod of this particular community, but please use the report button if you see anything like this happening.

Reminder that fascists in history have only been dealt with in one way:

Peace talks didnt stop nazis. This did ^

Thank you for making this post so we don't have to.

Transwomen are women. Transmen are men. Bi-sexual people are valid and shall not be erased.

We stand with our brothers and sisters.

I'd like to remind everyone that "bee kind" includes not accepting, normalizing, and ignoring transphobic opinions and beliefs. We're all together in this.

I'd like to remind you that you don't get to redefine words.

Having said that, I spent many hours having reasoned talks with *phobes and getting then to slowly see some light somewhere. Even if it's a glimmer, I think that's worth it. You don't get to tell me that I should yell at those people.

I'm a non-binary person who used to be pretty transmedicalist, if not outright transphobic and especially enbyphobic. Part of what brought me around was a de-escalation in the anger around explaining trans issues. When I first became aware of issues around using pronouns and non-binary people in 2012-ish, there was a lot of fury and very little real explaining. Just people berating others over not asking everyone for their pronouns or not understanding things about trans people. I was too scared to ask questions because everyone seemed so ready to jump down others throats and it really soured me, to the point of hanging around hate sites. It wasn't the only thing that pushed me in that direction but it certainly didn't push me away from being hateful.

A good part of what helped me come around understand was de-escalation of the anger and a genuine effort to explain things slowly and without judgement. After a while, sites started putting out longer articles about the nuances of trans and non-binary identities, and after I finally broke away from the hate sites, reading those helped me finally get it. I understand some of the anger. I get mad too. But I know from experience that yelling doesn't help convert anyone.

You say that

People need to be educated, and you're not going to change their minds by becoming hostile.

Is a bad take, but then your follow up explanation doesn't really go into detail about the sentiment behind this statement and reads completely off topic. Do you really think hostility is necessary to educate? Like when responding to an ignorant comment, are you yelling at them? As irrational as some phobics are, I agree you're not going to change their minds by flying off the handle and yelling at them or using hostile language. Not only do many people of all opinions respond poorly to that, the ones making bad faith arguments want you to get pissed and make you look irrational. Don't fucking let them.

The current climate of "discourse" in the US works against effective teaching. I do know what I'm talking about here; teaching emotionally charged subjects was my strength but it's nearly impossible to online these days.

I have no idea how you get out of this dynamic when it's become so deeply embedded in how things are done, just that for every person who manages to learn something amidst the shouting, another is driven further away from what you wish to teach. But this is where we are and what we have to work with.

This can be true along with the unfairness of putting the burden on the disadvantaged side. I don't know the answer. Perhaps there isn't one.

Agreed with points all around, just wanted to add:

1. “People need to be educated, and you’re not going to change their minds by becoming hostile.”

It frankly isn't our job to teach bigots to not be bigots. That's on them to learn to be better people, and if they can't, then fuck 'em.

Also, frankly, being over forty years old has taught me that not becoming hostile and trying to educated these fuckin cretins doesn't work either, because they don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves. They will only care about a political issue when it affects them directly, and even then, they'll only want solutions for themselves and still act like it shouldn't be a big deal for others.

They are not acting in good faith, so why the fuck would we waste our time teaching people who want to erase us?

2. “[Famous person] literally did the bare minimum to support gay people, so I doubt they’re transphobic.”

The only person who can name someone as an ally is someone from the community that needs allies.

If I am cisgender walk around calling myself an ally, even if I participate in allyship: I'm kind of an asshole.

If, on the other hand, I walk around participating in allyship, but rather, describe myself as "aspiring to be an ally," then: Maybe, just maybe, I'll actually do enough good works for someone in the community to think I am an ally. You don't get fucking bonus points for being Cisgender and bare minimum not being a shitheel. Actually stand up for the trans community, or take a hike, we don't need performative allyship.

I haven't seen a single megastar really stand up for the trans community.

3. “They’re from a different time.”

Maybe they should go live in a fucking cave, then, if they can't fucking hack it in the modern world. Fucking neanderthals.

I mean Jesus tittyfucking Christ, The Second Sex was written in Nineteen Fucking Forty-Nine. How old does the concept of gender identity need to be for these jerks to fucking accept it? They need to crack open a fucking book once in a while. The idea that they're from a different time is a fucking joke when the concept itself is seventy-four fucking years old. (and very likely much older, just not articulated in Western literature)

I don't know what this rant is in response to, but it's ironic that it was posted right after my wife was upset about a bunch of transphobic comments made to her friend's (semi-famous) mother being posted on another platform. It amazes me how upset people get at others who want to just live their lives to their fullest.

Even back in the 80s we didn't excuse bigotry, no matter the age or the history of the person. We maybe didn't feel as safe calling it out publicly back in the day, but it was certainly discussed. A bigot is a bigot, end of story. There was no excuse for it in 1983- when the ones "from a different time" were young!- and there's still no excuse for it forty years later.

I hate point 3 whenever it's used by someone. I've seen it used to defend people who had slaves too. It's like, you know that there were anti-slavery people even back then, right? Heck, there were anti-slavery people back in Roman times.

So if they could see the wrongness of slavery as wrong then, then no one else has that excuse.

It's just that people don't want to admit that a large amount, if not an outright majority, of people in history were bad, evil people. Most people were not good. Or, at the very least, they had little empathy for others outside their immediate family.

I'll never understand how people can say the L and G are different from the B and T.

Like the B is L and G and so aren't some of the T.

There's just no logic in excluding them

Especially when you actually read a queer history book

point number one is perfectly reasonable but has been weaponized by your enemies.

I understand what's going on when people dog pile on me for asking a naive question because it's so often the starting point for bad faith actors, but many people just see the community as hostile and unwilling to alleviate ignorance.

be kind, don't do their work for them.

nazis are from a different time

People need to be educated, and you’re not going to change their minds by becoming hostile

This might be a bad opinion. But it's not transphobic.