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[Serious] Why did Beehaw defederate from Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works for poor moderation and not lemm.ee and discuss.online? (lemmyverse.link)

submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by dipshit@lemm.ee to c/askbeehaw

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Seriously why? Discuss.online has horrible moderation and open-signups, and Lemm.ee isn't very much better. If lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works were completely nuked to avoid the moderation headache or risks from two large open servers, why aren't lemm.ee and discuss.online banned as well?

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[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This is just my anecdotal experience as an outsider, but the volume of nonsense coming out of lemmy.world dwarfs anything coming out of any other server. Three separate times this week I have had groups of people from there aggressively telling me some kind of total gibberish. I thought about defederating rss.ponder.cat from them, just on general principle to encourage people to go elsewhere and improve the overall cultural quality of the network.

I can't speak to sh.itjust.works, to me they seem fine. lemm.ee I've never had an issue with. lemmy.world is just a nonstop fountain of drama and ridiculousness, though. Deliberately hosting and making a home base for UniversalMonk for months, for example, I will never understand.

[–] dipshit@lemm.ee 7 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I mean lemm.ee literally hosts a conservative community, which on occasion features borderline transphobia and homophobia. Right-wing stuff ya know. discuss.online has wide open sign-ups and has regularly had spammers, trolls, and assholes come and go. They are a liability. As far as I can tell Lemmy hasn't gotten substantially better moderation tools since those last two big defederations, so the issues with these servers and servers like them are still valid and apparent.

[–] sunaurus@lemm.ee 26 points 3 months ago (3 children)

lemm.ee hosts a conservative community, which on occasion features borderline transphobia and homophobia.

Hi, lemm.ee admin here, please be sure to report any cases of community moderators not following lemm.ee instance rules directly to admins. The "no bigotry" rule is a treated very seriously at lemm.ee, and our admins will always handle such cases very harshly. We have in the past had to shut down a few conservative-type communities over such things. Having said that, I am not aware of the current moderators of that community allowing, much less featuring, any kind of bigotry (in fact, a quick look over the mod log shows them actively removing bigotry, usually posted by users from outside lemm.ee).

By the way, I know there are a lot of users on Lemmy who really enjoy starting defederation drama (I've lost count at this point of how many users like you I've seen), but is there really nothing better you could be doing on a Friday evening? Maybe go for a walk, spend time with some close ones, read a book, whatever. You are not gaining absolutely anything from what you are trying to do here.

[–] Vodulas 10 points 3 months ago

While I don't think OP is acting in good faith here, the top post is just transphobia.

https://lemm.ee/post/48042878

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 5 points 3 months ago

Thank you for jumping in

[–] dipshit@lemm.ee 1 points 3 months ago

How do I do it in a way that Admins will actually see the reports? Active community mods seem to dismiss reports so they aren't seen and there isn't exactly a way to report it so only admins can see them.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I just know that users from lemmy.world post stupid stuff to me on a pretty regular basis. I'm not aware of any lack of moderation that means that the stupid stuff goes unchecked, except from lemmy.world, as well lemmy.ml, Hexbear, and the like. The flavor is different but the distastefulness is consistent.

I saw the response from sunaurus, which matches my experience.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Also, from OP's bio

Account on lemm.ee because the pedophile admins in lemmy.world think they can keep me banned

OP, could you please provide evidence for those claims?

[–] dipshit@lemm.ee 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Some shit I made up from a long ass time ago. I got over it and don't rlly care anymore.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

@sunaurus@lemm.ee please consider this a report for defamation. I doubt that there are any pedophiles among the admins of lemmy.world, and if there are, I don’t think “I got over it” is a good response when asked about details. I think this is of a piece with this post, just a bad-faith attempt to cause strife for apparently no reason at all.

[–] dipshit@lemm.ee 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You're free to have your own opinion, I was a reactive angry person. I'm not denying responsibility for what I did back then.

[–] SweetCitrusBuzz 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Why not just change the text then if you're over it?

[–] dipshit@lemm.ee 3 points 2 months ago

I just did a few hours ago.

[–] TheRtRevKaiser 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If I recall correctly, the main reason we defederated from those instances at the time was the sheer volume of spam we were getting from users of those instances. While we do sometimes have a need to moderate users from larger instances like Lemm.ee, it's not currently at a volume that we can't handle, from what I've seen.

As always, as a moderator of several Beehaw communities, I would encourage you to report any comment or post you see that isn't up to the standards of Beehaw.org. Don't assume someone else is going to do it, and don't assume that moderators are always watching every interactions closely - we're all doing this in our free time and have other responsibilities. We may not take action on every report - sometimes things are borderline or the community has already pushed back and we feel like things are in hand - but I guarantee someone is looking at and considering every one.

[–] debanqued 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

If I recall correctly, the main reason we defederated from those instances at the time was the sheer volume of spam we were getting from users of those instances.

Good point (if that’s true). I can’t help but expose the irony of instances centralized under Cloudflare having a spam problem. It seems to show that those instances sold their sole to the devil only to not get the benefits of the devil’s offer.

[–] millie 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

If Discuss.online has open signups I definitely am of the opinion that we should defederate from them. Not really much point in having human-verified signups if we federate with instances that allow people to make as many accounts as they could ever want.

[–] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You as a user can block instances. So, those that want higher moderation can have it and those that want less can have it. When an instance bleeds toxicity, it makes sense to ban it for everyone.

Some users value the anonymity of open sign ups. Also, as the fediverse grows, it will become increasingly impossible to track which instances have which policies when anyone can spin one up at will.

[–] SweetCitrusBuzz 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

You as a user can block instances.

Sadly we cannot on beehaw, its version is too old.

[–] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 3 points 3 months ago

Oh, I forgot beehaw was not updating while they consider other platforms. I presume you will be able to id they decide to stay on Lemmy.

[–] debanqued 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

lemm.ee is centralized in Cloudflare’s exclusive walled garden. I can’t speek for the admins but it’s antithetical to the purpose of the fedi to advocate for federation with centralized hosts.

And there are consequences. If an image is posted to Lemmy.world, sh.itjust.works, or discuss.online, those of us who are excluded from Cloudflare cannot see it. A non-CF node federating to a CF node creates a broken network.

[–] dipshit@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I agree, cloudflare is evil and antithetical to the idea of Fediverse. #BlockCloudflare

[–] Kissaki 1 points 2 months ago

What do you think is evil about cloudflare?

[–] SweetCitrusBuzz 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Agreed. Though this might have been better in !support@beehaw.org?

[–] dipshit@lemm.ee 2 points 3 months ago

Probably, I crossposted there as well.

[–] ErsatzCoalButter 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Users on "sh.itjust.works" frequently promote racism and transphobia and other fascist adjacent garbage. Defed is the right move even if they "seem fine" at a glance.

[–] dipshit@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Late reply, I'm looking and I don't see it. It seems their admins are doing a lot to squash a lot of that bullshit. Compare that to lemm.ee where they allow !conservative@lemm.ee to run unimpeded and only ban users and posts after I call them out here. Seems my home server is much worse than that one...

[–] ErsatzCoalButter 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Here's an image of the guy they let flood their server with bigoted greentexts flooding /greentexts with bigoted greentext

Listen, I didn't join a better server to sit around debating with people about why the server is better, if your mods are trash come to Beehaw where they are good

[–] dipshit@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

So you're upset they allow a Greentext community? That doesn't seem like a good reason considering lemmy.ml has one and posts in that one are of similar standards and qualities.

I did read through those posts and they themselves seem benign. Especially compared to other communities like conservative which contain legitimately hateful shit.

[–] ErsatzCoalButter 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Listen if you think greentext culture is benign, you're getting played by bigots and a lot of people don't want to share your vision of moderation. The mods here have good instincts and I appreciate the environment they curate here on beehaw.

[–] dipshit@lemm.ee 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Sounds to me more like you personally dislike a thing and are trying to push it off as being bigoted because you don't like it. Listen I don't like the Greentext communities either, I think their jokes are more on the stupid side, but what they aren't is bigoted, at least I haven't been able to find any examples looking through those communities.

If you don't like them that is okay, but you shouldn't spread lies about people or places just because you personally don't like them.

[–] UngodlyAudrey 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

If you don’t like them that is okay, but you shouldn’t spread lies about people or places just because you personally don’t like them.

I think you're coming down too hard on this comment. A healthy skepticism of things that were derived from 4chan is pretty reasonable, given how at least some boards there reveled in bigotry and toxicity to the point where that was what 4chan was primarily known for. So, I kinda do try to avoid greentext communities because I don't view them as benign, either.

[–] dipshit@lemm.ee 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I don't think so. It's pretty toxic to accuse a person of bigotry when they aren't posting things that are bigoted, and actually have and enforce rules in their community against bigotry. All simply because of a content genre they dislike.

I don't like the format and I agree that there's reasons to be skeptical but I don't think it's okay to outright accuse a person of being bigoted when they have not been bigoted. If they had shown evidence of the person being bigoted, rather than their evidence being a guilt by association, that would be different but I haven't seen such evidence and it seems like their community is largely hostile to bigotry.

[–] UngodlyAudrey 2 points 5 days ago (1 children)

To be honest, I'm not that interested in having a back and forth about greentext in a three month old thread (I did not know it was this old when I first commented), so I'll just leave you with this: you should try to assume good faith when commenting here on Beehaw. You kinda gave ErsatzCoalButter's comment the least charitable interpretation it could've been given.

[–] dipshit@lemm.ee 2 points 5 days ago

Ok that's fair enough, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree and end it at that.

For the record I apologize if I came off as too harsh to their claims. I should've been more understanding. I'm very used to people making false claims, especially ones of a severe nature, and when I saw they were making a claim and presenting evidence that wasn't supporting those claims I thought it was one of those. I apologize if there was a misunderstanding.

[–] ErsatzCoalButter 1 points 2 months ago

Have to say, I joined Beehaw after Lemmy.world became unusable, largely due to federation with sh.itjust.works which is hosting users like Early To Risa and the other rightwing propagandists. It ruins the ability to browse without a login, and those propagandists drown out real content to the point that people quit posting it.

Notice how low quality everything is on sh.itjust.works? Its all fascists and people who tolerate them.