this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2023
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[–] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 93 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Women speaking up and demanding to be heard.

[–] CoderKat@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

In particular, women are more likely to be viewed as "bitchy", "bossy", etc for doing the exact same thing that a man could do without being considered as such.

So it's not just women speaking up, but also that there's a gender imbalance in how that speaking up can be viewed.

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[–] atlasraven31@lemm.ee 74 points 1 year ago (2 children)

"I'm just asking questions." Could be a child, could be a moon-landing conspiracy person.

[–] pickelsurprise@lemmy.loungerat.io 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Eh, if it's coming from an adult who should know better, I wouldn't say it's being misinterpreted as a sign of being an asshole.

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[–] CoderKat@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think the big deciding factor is how they're approaching the questions and what the questions are. Like, if someone is "just asking questions" where the questions just so happen to be a common bad faith talking point, yeah, I'm gonna assume they're also acting in bad faith.

Eg, leading questions are a particularly common example here. The amount of lean towards their already-decided viewpoint can vary. They might word their question to be convinced away from their viewpoint as the default ("why isn't the moon landing fake?"), or maybe they'll provide a statement that obviously gives more weight to their side ("the government is so untrustworthy, so how can we trust the moon landing was real?").

But often, they even do word the questions in a perfectly valid way, because they're not trying to get an answer. They're not gonna be convinced and they're trying to get an answer. What they want to do is make someone else mistake being stumped for "this person might be right". Eg, if someone asks you "is the moon landing real?" and you don't actually know how to prove that it's real, that can make you think that perhaps it wasn't real. After all, you can't explain how it is. But that's a fallacy. You not being able to explain it has nothing to do with whether or not it's real. Asking questions is cheap and easy. It takes no time investment compared to answering or understanding an answer. That makes it effective for planting seeds of doubt. And of course, people should think critically, but many folks aren't going to or aren't don't have the time. So they'll retain this low effort seed of doubt and that's it.

Plus of course, searching for these questions, especially leading ones, can get you to fall into conspiracy theory or alt right echo chambers, which will have the leading question included in multiple times and technically is a better match from a pure SEO point of view. Search engines do try and train themselves against the common leading questions, but they often have to do that explicitly. This is actually an area where search engines like DuckDuckGo do worse at. You're more likely to have a leading question in the top results because, again, it really is the most accurate match for that question. Should search engines direct you to the correct results or should they direct you to the results that are most accurate for what you searched for? Nobody really agrees and it'll be criticized either way (personally, I think that correctness is far more important because otherwise the search engines propagates misinformation).

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[–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 63 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Being bluntly honest. People who are neurodivergent can struggle with being "politely dishonest" and can tell you what they think in a very blunt manner without meaning to offend.

Not engaging in small talk. Again, people who are neurodivergent tend to prefer talking about things that fascinate them and can have a hard time understanding the point of talking about just whatever.

Struggling with being on time, struggling to focus on someone or something, struggling with eye contact. In general, neurodivergent traits tend to be seen as "asshole behavior" because they are abnormal and don't conform to society. People who aren't normal tend to be viewed as assholes because how dare they inconvenience me by being different.

Source: personal experience as well as listening to the experiences of others. I've been hit with all these things at least once and accused of being an asshole, aloof, and/or self-centered.

[–] CallumWells@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I find that struggling to be on time is fine, actually not being on time is disrespectful of my time. In modern society we have so many options available to make sure we can keep on time. Set up alarms, time how long it takes you to get dressed and out the door, time how long it takes you to get somewhere, set alarms to keep you on time based on what you've actually measured, not what one "feels" is enough time.

Personally I'm more often than not 5+ minutes early; I can always wait a little more before I go in or something, it's often harder to "just get there faster".

BTW; if someone is late because of something outside their control that's fine; just make sure to inform me ASAP.

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[–] WhipperSnapper@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think it's important to bear in mind that some of those things are what neurotypical folks, I guess you could call them, use to convey interest or disinterest. Eye contact is a way to express interest, and helps to show one is intently listening to the speaker. Conversely, frequently glancing away is kind of the body language equivalent of giving short "uh huh" type answers when one is trying to disengage from a conversation.

My point isn't that you should feel bad about struggling with these nuances; I just think it's worth mentioning that some of those negative reactions you may have experienced just has to do with expectations in body language. It's not that someone who's neurodivergent is being an asshole, it's just that they're sending out signals we're otherwise used to interpreting as disinterest, and that is (often) off-putting.

Again, it's not something to feel bad about, it's just communicating on different wavelengths so-to-speak. Sort of like a language/culture difference.

[–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I would agree with you except that I've seen people try to clarify that they're autistic, or ADHD, or bipolar, etc, and explain that it causes them to act in that manner and sometimes, no matter how hard they try, they can't surpress it or "act normal"; only to be told overwhelmingly by the people in the room/thread that they're an asshole and selfish for not trying hard enough.

I do understand that some of those things are used as visual indicators for people to determine how the other is feeling about the current conversation, and maybe it's way more important to people than I realize; but there are way too many people who will tell you that if you can't alter your behavior to be normal, then you're an asshole.

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[–] csolisr@communities.azkware.net 49 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Unrequested advice. Sometimes it is warranted after all.

[–] Cube6392 24 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I tell people this all the time. But I have to. It's like... If I don't, I won't know if I'm still real.

I was on the train once headed into the city. A dude getting off the train looks me dead in the eye and says "never trust unsolicited advice" and then stepped through the door.

That was it. That was the entire interaction. Completely blew my mind. I did ultimately decide it was legitimate advice. But still, it was wild being told not to trust the advice I was receiving.

[–] probably 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The fun thing about that is the dude gave you paradoxical advice. If you take theiradvice and don't trust unsolicited advice, then you are trusting unsolicited advice. If you don't take their advice then you are following their advice by not trusting unsolicited advice.

[–] Cube6392 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Right? It's why it blew my goddamn mind. I wonder if someone dropped that bomb on him the same way a long time ago and now I'm supposed to pay it forward

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[–] csolisr@communities.azkware.net 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Well, the dude forgot to state "never trust unsolicited advice - except for this one", typical mistake

[–] Cube6392 12 points 1 year ago

That man knew exactly what he was doing. He's still probably out there. Causing minor bouts of chaos along the commuter network of the greater metropolitan Washington, DC area

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[–] agressivelyPassive@feddit.de 22 points 1 year ago

And some people genuinely want to help, without implying the other person is stupid, weak, incompetent either.

[–] Serpardum@lemmyonline.com 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Unrequested advice is always taken for criticism. Don't do it. Ask first. "May I give you fome advice?"

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[–] ScaredDuck@sopuli.xyz 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Reminds of a post a few days ago, that described how people think you're condescending and sit on a high horse, just because you use some fancy words here and there.

Meanwhile I'm just trying to describe something with as much detail as possible, because it's important to convey exactly what I mean.

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[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Being vague and expecting everyone to know what you mean with a particular acronym. HFAYQT? πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

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[–] DaveNa@lemmy.ml 28 points 1 year ago
[–] SighBapanada@lemmy.ca 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Well for one, I wish I could tell people no when they ask me to social events without being interpreted as an asshole

[–] TheImpressiveX@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

"I'd love to, but unfortunately I am busy tonight."

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[–] Nemo@midwest.social 22 points 1 year ago (6 children)
[–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That really depends on if it's an exception or a consistent pattern.

[–] EliasChao@lemmy.one 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have a friend that’s always late, like literally always. I tried to put myself in his shoes because he’s got 2 small kids and that should be extremely exhausting, but I don’t think he even tries anymore.

[–] Cube6392 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm perpetually late. Trying to arrive on time to things I don't occupies so much of my head. I try to build in buffer time for emergencies. And every single time I'm still late. I don't even have two kids. If your friend is anything like me, arriving late fills him with guilt every single time, and the two kids are factors of chaos in planning that simply cannot ever be fully accounted for

[–] Aosih@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Reframe the way you think. Stop trying to arrive on time, and just commit to arriving early. I've easily arrived an hour early to appointments and just lounged around on reddit or read a book. I'd rather waste an hour of my time, than 15 minutes of a friend's (if you have an appointment with a group, multiply time you are late by # of people).

This is what we mean when we say people who are constantly late don't care about wasting other people's time. Even if they don't intend it, they are still choosing to prioritise themselves over others.

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[–] Nemo@midwest.social 9 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Not really. Almost nobody sets out trying to be late.

[–] Damage@feddit.it 21 points 1 year ago (10 children)

But if you're constantly late it means that you don't care about wasting other people's time... Kinda assholeish

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[–] booptoot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 1 year ago

Well, youd be surprised... I definitely know people that leave the house past the time they were supposed to be somewhere with a nonchalant attitude "theyll wait, its nbd"

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[–] RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

I turn the question around... people who are clearly liars, deceivers... politicians and businessmen that people line up to vote for with their money or public votes. You really wonder what people think an "asshole" is when you see the kind of politicians that get massive support in a population - to a point people have their photograph on the wall of their workplace or home, put stickers on their cars, etc. to support people that are clearly monstrous. A lot of people do not seem to like to study the crowds of Europe 1930's terrible leaders and just how many lined up to cheer on such persons.

The scientists a person believes also is a huge indicator of who they consider to be an 'asshole'. Just passively listening to people who support denial of climate change, denial of microscopic germs and virus, etc. The enthusiasm that followers to non-factual science seem to be very high, and they draw crowds in ways that fact-based science does not seem to do.

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[–] Serpardum@lemmyonline.com 19 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Someone stating their opinion.

[–] closure1170 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

100% depends on the opinion

[–] TheHalc@sopuli.xyz 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Absolutely.

"It's just my opinion" isn't a valid defence when you should have kept that opinion to yourself.

"Your baby is ugly" might even be true, but it's not something you actually say to people.

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[–] LucyLastic 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not a bigot, but in my opinion the sliding scale between jam and marmalade is so fine that it's not worth distinguishing between them, it should be a spectrum of preserves.

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[–] vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not agreeing to false logic (say, out of pressure to be polite or non-confrontational), especially when the next step would be doing something based on that logic. People sincerely don't understand why deceiving you once like this won't work another time and think it makes you an asshole.

[–] HandwovenConsensus@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

Agreed, and along the same lines, pointing out bad logic or factual errors used to support a point you actually agree with.

I am often thought of as an asshole because I am not much of a smiler and much of my politeness is perfunctory. I am somewhat reclusive and a loner by nature. I find my time at work having to mask exhausting and overstimulating. That much said, once people get to know me they generally discover that I am passionate and care deeply for people who are suffering or experience discrimination and will fight for them.

[–] SmokeInFog@midwest.social 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Honestly? Questions like this one

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[–] Rocky60@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)
[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If your trait as the word brutal in it, you're probably an asshole.

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[–] probably 16 points 1 year ago

This is almost always just being an asshole. You can be honest and be an asshole all at the same time. There is a reason that people train in conflict de-escalation and how to talk to people in a tactful way.

[–] Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 1 year ago

Honesty? Yes. Brutal honesty? Hell no.
If you don't want to be a twat, you should take at effort at considering how your words will impact a person, and try to take brutality our of it. Not lying, not hiding anything, but being considerate, that's, like, bare minimum

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[–] Naura@startrek.website 7 points 1 year ago

My resting bitch face

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