this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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Science Memes

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[–] jadero@mander.xyz 54 points 7 months ago (8 children)

It's always better to gain a full understanding of the system when trying to make important decisions.

The trolley has two sets of wheels, leading and trailing, both of which must remain on the same set of tracks.

The switch is designed to enable the trolley to change course, moving from one set of tracks to the other.

Throwing the switch after the leading set has passed, but before the trailing set has reached the switch points will cause the two sets to attempt travel on separate tracks. The trolley will derail, rapidly coming to a halt. If the trolley is moving slowly enough to permit this action, nobody dies.

Source: former brakeman (one of the people responsible for throwing switches), section hand (one of the people responsible for installing switches), and railroad welder (one of the people responsible for field repairs of switches).

[–] paholg@lemm.ee 24 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I'm pretty sure that leads to multi-track drifting, and so all the people die.

Source: https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/000/727/DenshaDeD_ch01p16-17.jpg

[–] jadero@mander.xyz 3 points 7 months ago

🤣

Don't worry, the first body or two will take care of it!

[–] Rodeo@lemmy.ca 3 points 7 months ago

This is quintessential anime action. So ridiculous, yet so awesome.

[–] doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm no expert, but I'd expect such a slow moving trolley to eventually derail itself anyway on account of all the corpses

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[–] Deconceptualist@lemm.ee 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I think you just passed the Trolley version of the Kobayashi Maru. Well done.

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[–] archchan@lemmy.ml 8 points 7 months ago

Way to stop the trolly problem dead in its tracks.

[–] GekkoState@lemmings.world 5 points 7 months ago

OR... if you can keep the wheels spinning really fast, you could "drift" the trolly, keeping a set of wheels on each track and kill everyone on both tracks into infinity.

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[–] pruwybn@discuss.tchncs.de 37 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I would question the ability to line people up on a railroad track such that they have a 1:1 correspondence with the real numbers.

[–] corvus@lemmy.ml 17 points 7 months ago

It's totally doable because they are real people.

[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago

Yeah, for any length of track, you would need to stack infinite people...

[–] nul@programming.dev 28 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Has anyone tried just asking the trolley to stop?

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 3 points 7 months ago

Found the Canadian!

[–] gandalf_der_12te@feddit.de 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It is my understanding that the trolley just wants to go forward. It doesn't care whether it kills people or not.

Therefore, make the trolley go in circles.

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[–] nothacking@discuss.tchncs.de 21 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Pulling the lever will kill people slower, therefore less deaths in the lifetime of the universe.

[–] Johanno@feddit.de 8 points 7 months ago

So I won't do it

[–] Artyom@lemm.ee 19 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Pull the lever, thus killing -1/12th people.

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[–] LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Move to the end of the track and undo the constraints of people on the track. You will have infinite time until the trolly reaches the end, and can thusly save infinite lives by doing so.

[–] Mesophar@lemm.ee 14 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Sadly, it takes an infinite amount of time to reach the end of the track. Thankfully, you have infinity time, though it's still inconvenient. An infinite number of people people will die (instead of an infinite number of people), but you'll save an infinite number of people in the end. After an infinite amount of time that will be infinitely better!

[–] variants@possumpat.io 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

but if the trolley moves at a faster pace than you so you will never catch up?

[–] nul@programming.dev 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Just ride another trolley on the other track.

[–] Zoop 3 points 7 months ago

That way you kill the people on the other track, too. Efficient!

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

An infinite track has no end, just like a number line.

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[–] vamputer@infosec.pub 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Do nothing, since an infinite number of people implies an inconceivable population overgrowth, so the best possible good for humanity is to cull the population.

Heck, you could probably go out and genocide the rest of the population that isn't tied to the track and still not suffer any real loss. Then, you face the last true enemy: the bloodsoaked beast responsible for the deaths of untold billions- yourself.

Once you've slain that last creature, all of humanity that still remains will be those tied to the railroad track. The only living people will spend their entire lives knowing nothing but the track and the trolley, and the imposing fear that one day, they, too, shall be crushed under its wheels like those before them.

The only life remaining for the human race is now one of terror and eventual slaughter. There are no good outcomes to this conundrum. There are only the uncaring wheels of the trolley.

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 5 points 7 months ago

Just the existence of infinite people implies an infinite space to contain them, and an infinite ecosystem to have produced them. Concerns related to overtaxing a finite ecosystem don't apply.

[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 12 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I come to an agreement with the person who has tied these people to the tracks to untie every 2nd person. I save an infinite number of people!

[–] TheOakTree 6 points 7 months ago

And if you convince the now untied individuals to each untie two people, you can now save multiple sets of infinite numbers of people!

[–] kbal@fedia.io 12 points 7 months ago

Seeing an infinite number of people lying there I deduce that I must be in some kind of thought experiment and let the trolley roll on while I look for a way to escape back to reality.

[–] hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

People die faster if you do nothing, so doing nothing seems like the obvious choice

[–] LanternEverywhere@kbin.social 10 points 7 months ago (3 children)

The trolley goes at infinite speed after the branch point. What's your outside the box answer now?

[–] sqw@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 7 months ago

which size infinite speed we talkin’? if its faster than light then maybe we got ourselves a time travel trolley 😎

[–] GammaGames 5 points 7 months ago

Join them on the rail

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[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago

I kill the trolley driver. The Dead Man button makes that the trolley stops.

[–] unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone 8 points 7 months ago

This is a complex problem, hence I pull an imaginary lever and divert the trolley onto the imaginary number line to kill infinite imaginary people. No one cares because they're imaginary

[–] Skyline969@lemmy.ca 7 points 7 months ago

Multi-track drifting, baby. Double infinite.

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Invent a new number system that provides aneven smaller infinity

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[–] Bigfish@lemmynsfw.com 7 points 7 months ago

I'm just waiting for the black hole to form just from the mass of the infinite people between 0-1 on the Reals track.

[–] xor@infosec.pub 6 points 7 months ago

but what about with the infinite amount of people collapse under their own mass and form a black hole?

[–] DaGeek247@fedia.io 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I get that the answer is supposed to be "it doesn't matter" but if you take time into account, it actually fucking does, and also makes it hugely obvious what the actual answer is.

[–] metaStatic@kbin.social 5 points 7 months ago

from the picture this is true but from the statement alone both options are identical

[–] Soggytoast@lemm.ee 5 points 7 months ago

Would suck being the last person on either track. It'd be a long and boring wait while tied up

[–] Krauerking@lemy.lol 5 points 7 months ago

Pull the lever. Save as many lives as you can and hope that someone that now wasn't killed as fast can help come up with a solution for the runaway trolley.

[–] fossilesque@mander.xyz 5 points 7 months ago

i'd ask for a second train.

[–] SpicyAnt@mander.xyz 4 points 7 months ago

I pull the lever and invoke Zeno's paradox to ensure the trolley's position remains < 1 for eternity.

[–] OpenStars@startrek.website 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

This comment section is politics in action! :-P

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[–] deur@feddit.nl 4 points 7 months ago

Did nobody have math class? The pictures are always misleading!

It never actually specifies the density the people are packed onto the track, the image implies an answer.

I'd argue that the densities should be considered to be equal, regardless of whatever that density value may be. We do not need to solve for the exact value to discuss the problem at hand!

[–] cloudless@feddit.uk 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I know many people despise generative AI, but what do you think of this result from Copilot? I am bad at maths so I wonder if you experts can tell.

In your scenario, you have two sets: the integers on the top track and the real numbers on the bottom track. The cardinality of the integers is equal to the cardinality of the real numbers, which is called the continuum hypothesis. Therefore, it seems intuitively more ethical to pull the lever and divert the trolley to the bottom track, where you kill fewer people in any finite time.

[–] callyral@pawb.social 4 points 7 months ago

it seems intuitively more ethical to pull the lever and divert the trolley to the bottom track,

not an expert but the integer one is at the top i think

[–] frezik@midwest.social 3 points 7 months ago

The same thing most people would do when presented with a Trolly Problem for real. Analysis paralysis, choose to do nothing, then cry softly every night for the rest of my life.

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