Asklemmy

I’d make an account on a different server.

When I first heard of beehaw I had really high hopes and was genuinely excited about the idea of a safe space for marginalised people, but when I saw this being framed as "be nice" without exception or nuance a bunch of red flags started waving, to paraphrase - "you can't be nice to everyone, because being nice to certain people is inherently cruel to others", and I was soon proven right in my concerns, with sprinkles on top - beehaw is a typical liberal (not leftist) space, where criticism of the status quo or swearing at bigots and bootlickers is seen as "not nice", but "polite" bigotry or even genocide denial are a-ok (those being the tankie-sympathising sprinkles I was referring to)..

Good luck to you I guess, but having already blocked your domain, you won't be missed, not by me anyway. ¯\(ツ)/¯

I'm subscribed to a number of beehaw communities, so it would be a loss for me.

Personally I feel like I use my beehaw mostly to interact with federation, but in part because scrolling through local I run out of posts. Sometimes I'm conversational, sometimes I'm not and just want content.

I do like that Beehaw is somewhat walled off though. My experience being on Kbin and Beehaw has been great with lots of poignant conversations. I recently created a slrpnk.net after some of these talks made me want to have a backup made just in case, plus it's nice to see a different side of the fediverse.

Well, it's federated with lemmy.world and I have found that 9/10 comments are bad takes, basic/shortsighted, and aren't really responsive to actual discussion. Every once in a while there's someone who speaks out against the absurdity but it feels so few in far between. I actually find it difficult to read through comments because it is disheartening to read people even of this sort of community defending corporate actions and completely ignoring any discussion about it. I'm not even talking about "this isn't my opinion and I don't want to read it" - I love discussion it's why I'm here.

In part it's why I'm against the threads federation if only because the flood of content seems so much more meaningless. I like that when I am looking through Microblogs on KBin (I think it's the right name - the ability to see mastodon posts) it's people and their hobbies and conversational questions - or just art with various themes. From what I've been promoted about Threads on Instagram it's not like that at all. I know it's less of an issue for lemmy but is it not the principle?

All this to say - if I don't have to do anything on my end, I'll likely continue using it as it is and it realistically won't affect me too much outside of scope as I use multiple fediverse accounts already anyway. If it comes to be that I migrate or recreate an account I'll probably stick around but I do definitely interact primarily with federation first I think.

Beehaw right now:

It would be a big loss for the fediverse, but if that's what OG Beehaw users want, I don't necessarily feel like we should have a say

I would not like it.

I understand the issues for the people running Beehaw and they are totally real and understandable. That being said you have to appreciate that Beehaw is setting an example as one of the most popular instances on the Fediverse. What y'all are doing is not just limited to what you directly control but is also influencing this new and developing sphere that is the Fediverse. I understand that some people are resentful of how Beehaw enforces the rules of its own community, and I understand how a barrage of that can be extremely demotivating and tiresome. I have also heard about the absolutely despicable content that some mods have had to deal with which is extremely traumatizing which ideally shouldn't have to be experienced by anyone. I would understand anyone who would want to never have to deal with that again since that would probably be my reaction.

In terms of ideas, I really appreciate that Beehaw is making a firm stand in the interest of free expression without being bogged down by prejudice and economic interests. The success of Beehaw compared to other instances demonstrates that the project y'all are working on is desired not only by Beehaw denizens such as myself but also those from general instances. This is despite what I assume is a barrage of negativity, complaints, trolling, and legitimately criminal behavior by those who do not support the kind of place which Beehaw is. I know it's a big and unfair ask to want you guys to continue experiencing the things that cause you to want to make you abandon the fediverse, and honestly I wouldn't blame you if you do, but it is very clear to me that the existence of Beehaw as it is is a huge draw to the fediverse and is establishing norms which can't be accommodated outside of what we have here. Reddit sure as hell can't offer what I've been experiencing on the fediverse, and I think that Beehaw is a huge reason for why that is.

Beehaw is my favourite instance, if it left I would stay with it but and also use a different instance to use Lemmy.

I would worry that Beehaw couldn't sustain itself outside of federation though, it needs to be either bigger or fill more of a niche and it doesn't do either. I would give it some time to grow more first if it were up to me.

I wouldn't leave. Starting from scratch again would spin off too many users. Beehaw already has some subs that are already somewhat anemic. The fediverse still needs users and high-quality discussions since facebook, reddit, and digg ravaged the many forums of old that used to exist.

We decided that our ‘Northern Star’ or guiding principle would culminate as ‘Be Nice’ with purposefully vague/flexible interpretations. Our overall goal is to provide a safe space to disenfranchised persons.

Oh look, someone failed to absorb one of the lessons of Letter from Birmingham jail

https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

From Beehaws docs on defederation:

We are simple with defederating: we do not allow hate speech, and we must consider our own limits when it comes to moderating. If an instance allows hateful speech or in our judgement has users who are too much for us to currently manage given the state of Lemmy, we defederate with it.

If the goal is to limit hate speech and provide a safe space on Beehaw, then I think you should defederate from the fediverse. I think however the value in providing a safe(r) platform for engaging with the rest of the fediverse to be more valuable, but I am personally in no need of such a safe space myself.

If Beehaw defederates, I will no longer think or care about Beehaw, since at the end of the day, the power of federation is by far the coolest thing in the fediverse; I am not interested in joining another Reddit clone! No hard feelings though, do what you think is right!

When you say "leaving the fediverse", do you mean leaving the platform/protocol altogether, or just defederating from everywhere?

Either way, I would think it'd be a loss for the community and the broader fediverse, but ultimately it's your decision. There seem to be some free speech absolutists ITT, but personally I think taking the approach of aggressive defederation is perfectly valid.

I'm curious, what benefit do you see in total seclusion?

You will be missed. However, do your thing. I think you should first consider maybe adapt to your current situation and update your original goals. Evaluate your current goals instead of evaluating the tools to achieve past goals.

Sucks that you're getting shit for this. You do you, and you'll do good whatever you decide because this is the whole point of it all - freedom to choose.

I'd be sad to see you leave, since you have great content. I'm curious what the downsides are and if they can be resolved without leaving the fediverse.

I don't see how the idea of being a safe space is compatible with being federated because the biggest opposition to safe spaces is the average person. Being federated with the average internet person is going to keep it from being a safe space, so federation is in direct opposition to your goal.

That isn't saying the goal of beehaw is wrong, just that the goal is not compatible with the average person.

Good luck out there, whatever path is chosen.

I enjoy some of the threads from Beehaw that show up in my feed, and the ~5 of us on this instance participate there regularly. We like it.

However if you defederated us or switched off Lemmy, we wouldn’t follow. You are a valued part of the greater Lemmy soup but no one instance defines it.

blahaj and beehaw are my two favourite places on the internet so id definitely miss y'all ❤️

I'm not a Beehawizen but I've only had positive interactions. I'd check in if you moved the community off of lemmy, but I think the fediverse would be the poorer for it.

I'd be sad, there are many great communities and contributors there, and I'd hate to see it go away :(

Maybe some limited federation with instances you consider responsive enough when an issue arise?

the only thing of substance are links to your websites and discord

Ah okay so this is what this is about. Very creative way to peddle your shit.

I doubt I'd notice.

What is really so bad that you want to leave?

Not a fan of any of the idealistic instances and beehaw is not an exception. If there was some good communities then someone is just going to recreate those on a different instance.

People say that the point of activity pub is federation but to me that also means voluntary federation. The possibility of federation. What I dream for it is an option to opt-in instead of opt-out. You should be able to pick "opt-out" if you want a big, connected place. You can have your cake and eat it too by also keeping an account in a big instance of your choice. Most apps let you switch accounts with a tap or two.

We don't all want to be thrown into the world all the time; complete federation just makes it a safe space for majority populations and marginalizes minorities by default. No, I'm not saying you're all evil and exclude people on purpose, it just happens. It happens to me too.

Some of you seem to think that marginalized people are too soft and want a safe space, but you fail to notice that largely, you also have a safe space for yourself, it's just that you probably belong to the default in many areas (I am sighted and most of the internet is made for sighted people).

I grew up in a small forum; people should be able to choose to keep things small, and open in a controlled way. Because that's the beauty of activity pub, you can still federate with others!

I understand the very practical problem of lack of moderation tools and to me that's pretty much the only reason to leave, for now. Maybe come back if it gets better?

Well my small instance is still federated, but the other NZ instance defederated after an 'issue'

I think in the last 2 or so months, the interaction between Beehaw and the main (other) lemmy instances has been less abrasive than it was during the big exodus.

I feel that you leaving now may limit the further growth of the fediverse, but if it is the right thing to do for your users than that is up to you and your users

TLDR don’t want you to leave.

You cowards defed at the drop of a hat, just leave already snowflakes.

Reading through the lemmy.world responses is just disheartening.

Beehaw is my favorite lemmy instance, its actually the only one with meaningful discussions and lively community. I'm grateful for your time and commitment towards a place where people are nice and have meaningful discussions. You the admins do all the work, you have to make the call. I will come with you but I'm not certain how it will go. If there are easy to use mobile apps and notifications I'll be more likely to get notified about new content. I just haven't seen any old school boards that tick all those boxes. So, if I have a vote (which I believe I dont) I vote to stay and rather help you improve the admin tools.

I like some communities that beehaw hosts such as music.
Other than that: The more the merrier?

I follow two beehaw communities and they are both duplicates on other servers but with slightly different content.. I wouldn't even notice.

Defederate from .world and aaaaallllll of your problems will go away. EDIT: you already did and that wasn't enough. Well time to pull the plug.

I don’t give a single nacho

Let me start by saying that if Beehaw would be missed for all of us, but I doubt people would move with it if it left ActivePub. That being said I’d recommend sticking with Lemmy, sure it doesn’t have all the features yet — but it’s still young (and is still growing).

¯\_(ツ)_/¯