News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe ๐ช๐บ
(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, ๐ฉ๐ช ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures
(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)
Also check out !yurop@lemm.ee
I've been waiting for years for this to finally be approved. I can't stand Daylight Saving Time, only serves to make me tired for the next month while I adjust, twice per year. It's a relic from the past and many countries are moving towards removing it or have removed it already altogether.
More info:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-000550_EN.html
I can't stand winter time, would love DST all year long. Its so depressing to have the sun set before I finish work and come home when its pitch black...
It clearly seems like something designed by people who get up at 04:00 and are asleep by 20:00.
It was, but also we have the same time in most EU, so at the west or east extremities either winter or summer time is quite wrong (or even both). Synchronized time is handy for international relations, though.
Honestly, just give me one time for everything world-wide and then have - gasp - people get up at different times. It would make things so much easier.
Aweful idea: do you want to plan a meeting at 16:00 with colleagues in the US? It is very hard to tell if this makes sense without timezones. Is this in their working day? Or the equivalent of midnight? Or something else? There are no timezones, so there is no way of telling without looking at some shady website how many hours you are shifted - which is basically the concept of timezones anyway, but shittier.
without looking at some shady website
On Gnome and on Windows you can add multiple clocks so when you click the time it shows the differences.
But not if there are no timezones! Probably someone would find a way to display the shift anyway, but this is basically the old timezone system again, but without a (more-or-less) universal standard.
The universal standard right now is UTC and pretty much any program or other application that is serious about time uses it and only converts to the broken timezone system on display.
Doesn't the whole of China have like one single time zone and they do exactly this?
In China the vast vast majority of people live in a single timezone at the coast, so this is not really comparable.
I regularly do have to work with and also have friends in other time zones. Despite doing so for the better part of two decades and not being bad at mental maths most of the calculations involved, especially with DST at different start and end dates, are a total headache. It would be much easier to have a list of "person x is available from global time y to z" data and check where that overlaps. Not to mention all the issues around "meeting at the same time every week" when "the same time" has no meaning between two time zones with different DST.
this just shifts the problem around though. so instead of debating when 8am and everyone getting to work is relative to the suns cycle you have to figure out which time should be getting to work time. But it still faces the same problems: Different people have different biological clocks and we were not made to deal with people being a thousamd kilometres or more away regularly.
The US have several timezones, seems okay for them
Mainly it is just Arizona that is totally weird there with its nested levels of 'no DST/DST' (7 levels deep I think).
Ask your employer if you can move hours -1 or +1, if that's possible in your case. I know some people that were able to improve their efficiency through that, it's a win-win situation
It's worth a try for sure. But for many people it's not possible because they work in a team and/or are reliant on a common schedule with externals. So either everyone starts an hour later or noone does which is really hard to coordinate.
Thank you for this! I had a look at the first link, it seems like they didn't answer anything more than 2020, which is this one: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2020-005617-ASW_EN.html
Basically, more paperwork to do before going on...
It takes you a whole month to adjust one hour?
Indeed it does. To clarify it takes a couple of days or a week max, but I can feel an effect linger on for almost a month. I guess I'm getting old.
You're not alone in taking a while to adjust. Circadian rhythms are kind of important to proper functioning. One study found that heart attacks increased coinciding with switches to and from DST. Of course this is only one study. Would need quite a few more before I could draw conclusions.
https://www.franciscanhealth.org/community/blog/daylight-saving-time-heart
There have also been studies on car accidents and similar events around lack of focus and being unable to concentrate rising after a DST change.
How hard is it to adjust. My clock on my phone updates itself, my alarm shifts accordingly, I don't even realise it happens until I look at the coffee machine or microwave, I reset them and then forget it happens for another six months. If one hours shift effects you that much it seems like a medical issue.
It's not man, really. Work and the stress that comes from my responsibilities at it, kids that make my sleep irregular, sleep deprivation because I want to do more than I have possibly time to do, slightly overweight, etc. overall I don't have a significant amount of consecutive good nights of sleep enough to feel rested in general, and this makes me very sensitive to time changes. There was a time I also didn't care or noticed, but when my nights started to become short, it started making a difference.
getting up an hour earliet or pushing yourself to go to bed an hour earlier can be quite difficult if you have a tight schedule, e.g. having no flexibility about when you start working.
Surely your job also shifts with the clock change in a country that does DST, you don't suddenly have to start work an hour earlier.
in Spring i have to. i need to be at work at 8 and when 8 is shifted by an hour i have to be a zombie for a week until my ritzm can adjust.
But everything else shifts by an hour too? I literally don't even notice the clocks change these days until I look at a non-connected clock, everything connected to the internet just shifts automatically, alarms and all. An hours difference shouldn't put a healthy human out so much.
yes it does because a healthy human has a well established circadian rhythm that is adjusted to the cycle of day and night.
The public poll was extremely skewed, mostly Germans voted.
Biologists argue against permanent summer time, people are in favor of summer time. But most people haven't looked into the issue enough. Do you like to get up early? Then summer time is indeed better for you. But for most people it's not. But summer is nice and it's really complicated to think about time and the sun and how one changes when we move the clocks, so most people think they prefer summer time. Public health and public opinion run opposite in this case.
At the moment we have one time zone all the way from Spain to like Poland. Poland doesn't want to give up summer time, Spain doesn't want to give up standard time. (Or was it the other way around?). They are on the fringes of the time zone, geographically speaking and feel the negative effects the most. Obviously neither country wants to make the situation worse for its citizens, so no agreement has been reached.
Well, they could get the timezones, that actually fit to their geography.
This is an option. I think it is not a very popular one though, because it makes cooperation and trade a tiny bit more complicated.
I would add to this the compounding effect of northern places. If one were to keep summer time all year round, the sun would rise at 9.30 am in the winter.
On the other hand, if one keeps standard time all year round, it rises at around 2 am in the summer.
(I still hate daylight savings though.)
I thought global warming was how we were abolishing winter time. I'll see myself out
I much prefer more light in the evening than the morning. I really hope eventually we snap to our senses and put an end to the time change. It sucks so hard in the winter.
Old people were against it and they seem to be the only ones with a voice that is actually heard.
Not just old people are against it. I think a lot of people would be against permanent winter time, me included, since it'd mean shorter evenings in the summer and sunrise very early in the morning. Likewise, keeping Summertime all the time would mean extremely dark mornings in the winter. From what I gathered summer time only would also be unhealthy according to sleep experts. The changes are not ideal either, but imo it's a fine solution. I'd rather have this than wintertime only
Or not everyone lives in the same latitude and changing the time effects you a lot more the further from the equator you get.
I'm strongly opposing the idea of abolishing summer time and not even 60 years old.
messing with boomers is always a bad idea
They couldn't agree, so it went back for each state to decide, but even domestically it can be difficult to reach an agreement.. so we all continue doing the worst solution.
This topic (and all previous discussions around this question) is the exact example why it hasn't been changed and likely never will be changed: People cannot agree to either of the solutions.
A good solution for your place is a bad solution at some other place.
It's just a popular topic for politicians to talk about - and then not doing anything about it.
How did people do before the oil crash and the reinstating of the daylight saving time?
Different countries could have different timezones, the US work with different timezones
Timezones solve an entirely different problem.
Timezones solve the east west problem, while daylight saving time solves the "sun rises later in winter"-problem. So more like a north south problem - because seasons.
If you want to suggest to create more "north south" timezones, you'd only make it more complicated than it is already. After all one of the more sane arguments is to remove complexity by removing DST. You'd bring complexity to a whole new level instead.
I wasn't introducing north south timezones, just reacting to the common issue that is that some countries prefer summer time, while others prefer winter time. The issue seems to be there because we want countries as far apart as Spain and Poland to share the same timezone.
An article that addresses that issue, with an interesting proposition (4 timezones instead of 3)
North south timezones also dont work all that well really. the further you go both morning and evening move. so you just end up having to got to work in the middle of the night and come back in daylight or the other way round
Day time is just a number, with no inherent meaning. Yes, 12 and 0 are special times, but all the rest shrinks and grows with the seasons. Is 7 too early to be in office, is 11 too late?
My point is, how about we stick to the time switching, since a large scale agreement (LSA) seems impossible, and focus on small scale agreements (SSA)? We could make the SSAs so to exactly cancel out the negative impacts from the LSA.
For example, office hours (a SSA) can make the inverse switch so that employees don't have to change their schedule in practice. Your clock is one hour early for the next six months? Who cares, just come to office an hour late for the same period. For some teams with flexible times this would hardly be noticable.
This idea apparently has some flaws because I haven't seen a grocery store with different opening times for winter and summer. Or maybe they just change the whole display twice a year so I never notice.
Anyways, fire away and tell me what's wrong about this approach.
The Britons didnโt care and it was mostly done to spite them