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They said they’re treating their workers fairly, sourcing from ethical sources, renewable claims, repairability claims, and supporting foss projects (they donated a fp4 to CalyxOS to support development). All of these are amazing, so adding a little headphone jack shouldn’t be that hard in the grand scheme of all this.
lol wtf
All of those things seem vastly more important than a headphone jack!
I'm not discounting their achievements but if they truly want eco friendly in mind then they would retain the headphone jack so people don't have to buy adaptors or get new wireless headphones they didn't want in the first place.
I guess? Seems incredibly minor lol
So I thought to myself…why?
Why? There are various arguments as to why the old audio jack standard is obsolete, but this discussion was essentially settled with the Fairphone 4, which was the first one that did not have a headphone jack. And they released a detailed article describing their reasoning..
https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/9836188988049-Audio-jack-3-5mm
The community has been requesting this for a couple years
The community? It's not as if Fairphone just willy nilly decided to get rid of the headphone jack, this was done with feedback from the community in mind.. Just because you are loud and passionate doesn't mean that your opinion is the only one that represents the community's.. As a fairphone user and "member of the community", I say fuck the 3.5 mm jack.. It's an ancient standard that was obsolete years ago,
And just to be clear, this isn't a discussion about wireless vs wired earbuds. You can have wired USB earbuds, you can even use your old 3.5 mm jack headphones with an adaptor. This is a discussion whether we should switch back to an ancient and inferior standard just because you are used to it..
Just add the headphone jack, shouldn’t be too hard.
And this entitled and wilfully ignorant attitude will make people take you even less seriously.. You can't "just add the headphone jack", decisions like that have an impact on all of the design of the device and have to be carefully evaluated.. You simply going "come on just do it, how hard can it be" will not convince anyone..
The only ignorant answer i'm seeing is from yourself.
The headphone jack is an inexpensive small connector that offers far better quality than bluetooth does (i.e. lossless audio), is universal and is a really inexpensive feature to add to a device.
The ONLY reason it has been removed is to push the sales of wireless headphones and earbuds. Fairphone got rid of it and soon after started selling bluetooth devices. And you just bought the marketing. As for the usb adapters, those are an extra point of failure and easy to misplace.
For all the good things Fairphone did, this is a really shitty one. If Sony can keep the jack on all their devices, anybody can, and the rest are excuses.
You don't like the jack? You can just keep using bluetooth.
Their responses address commenters directly, with an apple-esque "you are doing it wrong" attitude, instead of focusing on the actual subject matter - the 3.5mm jack itself. It's not really a discussion, it's much more comparable to victim blaming and trolling 🤷♂️. People are looking for a discussion, not an attack thinly veiled as a "solution". No point engaging IMO.
Regarding the actual topic though, I'm fully in agreement with you.
Here's why I don't feel as if bluetooth or dongles are an appropriate replacement: https://lemmy.one/comment/2684726
Since then I've also realised driver & codec support will slowly become a big issue as we move forward with dongles and bluetooth headphones, especially for people who prefer to keep their devices for longer
Some people will just swallow propaganda, and defend corporations even going against their own interests.
To be clear, i'm not against bluetooth audio, heck i even have a set of high end Jabra earbuds, but those are not a substitute for my AKG k702 or my Audio Technica M40x. Having an audio jack is about having an option, and we know companies are lying through their teeth because somebody managed to add an audio jack to an iPhone without losing any functionality at all.
Some people will just swallow propaganda, and defend corporations even going against their own interests.
Or maybe some people just don't care about using their smartphone as a premium audio device? The audio jack on a smartphone servers no purpose to me, it hasn't for years before smartphone manufacturers started moving away from it. It's nothing more than a unused plug that can potentially break and whether you like it or not, most people nowadays have the same opinion as me..
There was a discussion to be had back when apple started to push for it, one can even argue that this was forced by apple before it's time. But we aren't talking about that, we are talking about today, about what should happen with this upcoming phone that is supposed to be functional for 10 years..
The idea that they should reintroduce a standard that has since almost completely disappeared in the smartphone world because a small minority of people want to connect professional studio headphones that are about as expensive as the smartphone itself is absolutely ridiculous..
with an apple-esque “you are doing it wrong” attitude
You make it seem as if it was just apple that wants to get rid of the 3.5mm jack in the smartphone market, which is simply not true.. I don't care for apple at all and I don't see what apple has to do with this discussion.. That discussion has already been had, back when the fairphone 4 was released, but some people still make the exact same arguments as in the years before..
focusing on the actual subject matter - the 3.5mm jack itself
The subject isn't whether the 3.5mm jack itself is a viable standard.. The subject is if it is a viable standard for modern smartphones.. And by now, the direction is clear..
I don't see the 3.5mm jack disappearing completely anytime soon, but in the modern smartphone world, I don't see a reason why we should cling to the 3.5mm jack when we already have USB as a standard that has the same functionality.. Especially now, when the switch has already happened..
Here’s why I don’t feel as if bluetooth or dongles are an appropriate replacement
Great, but can you also tell me why USB cable headphones are not an appropriate replacement? This is what I find so frustrating about this discussion, people always pretend that the options are either keeping the 3.5 mm headphone jack forever or using bluetooth headphones..
The headphone jack is an inexpensive small connector
It's still an unnecessary addition to modern smartphones that has an impact on design, etc..
offers far better quality than bluetooth does
And once again, you ignore what I wrote in my comment and try to turn this discussion into a discussion about "wires vs wireless/bluetooth" when it's obviously not..
As for the usb adapters, those are an extra point of failure and easy to misplace.
If using an adapter is too much of a hassle for you, get a wired USB headphone.. It's funny, you pretend that the only viable options are either bluetooth or an obsolete standard. We already have a new standard.. We had it for decades now.. And it's already built into and used with virtually any modern smartphone. But no, because you are used to your old standard, you demand that the old standard is still used in addition to the new standard..
If Sony can keep the jack on all their devices
This isn't about what we could and couldn't do.. We could go back to using cassettes if we wanted to, there just isn't a good enough reason to do it as far as most people are concerned..
Look at your comment, you can't give me a good reason for your argument. Your only argument is "but it's not that much of a hassle" and "everyone used it in the past so we should continue using it"..
You don’t like the jack? You can just keep using bluetooth.
I can just use bluetooth, or I can just use USB. So can you.
But can you give me one argument why we should, in addition to having both bluetooth and USB interfaces on our smartphones, have an additional plug using a standard from the 1950s that we can ONLY use for audio when we already have to have a USB plug that can also be used for audio?
No, just because you say "it is obsolete" doesn't make it so.
Yes, i'll give you my argument. The headphone jack is an industry standard, has been for decades and will be for much more time. Audio equipment, recording interfaces, anything that has a minimum of quality standard uses wires and jacks.
The 3.5mm jack adds 0 latency and allows for much, MUCH, higher audio resolution and don't have to compress the audio before allowing you to hear it.
The usb plug is just a stupid cop out. It's not really a standard, is something that was born as an excuse. Why should i have a more fragile connector that has to rely on electronics when i can use a cable that i can fix myself if it breaks? Also, please point me in the directon of some high end headphones with a usb connector. And i mean high end, reference quality, not some brandless crap from amazon.
Because Fairphone are arguing in bad faith. If they were really concerned about repairabilty, they would have kept a reliable and easy to fix jack instead of selling overpriced bluetooth earbuds.
If anything, this whole ordeal is a constant reminder that corporations are not our friends, and that some people will somehow just blindly defend them.
the old audio jack standard is obsolete
Funny you say this because I'm using one as I write this. Why? Because simply plugging in my headphones into the phone is way faster then connecting ones using bluetooth, because I just have pair of small cheap headphones in my backpack and because I wanted to listen to music now. Yes, I have BT headphones but those are big (over the ear headphones with big case) so I left them at home. Yes, I could get spare, small BT headphones but those are way more expensive and I would have to remember to charge them. Also, if I forget to bring headphones to work desktop support can give me a pair... with 3.5mm jack. So I'm also avoiding phones without a jack and it's not because I'm stubborn. It's because every now and then I still find myself using it. The day I stop using it I will be ready to get a phone without it.
Funny you say this because I’m using one as I write this.
You using obsolete technology doesn't make it any less obsolete..
Because simply plugging in my headphones into the phone
Why do you keep trying to turn this discussion into a discussion of wireless vs wired? I'm not saying wires are obsolete, I'm saying the 3.5 mm standard is obsolete when it comes to modern smartphones because it's a standard from the literal 1950s (which is ultimately based on a standard from the 1800s)..
I don't have a 3.5 mm headphone jack, yet I can simply plug my wired headphones in using a wire too and just use it without bluetooth.. And I can use the same standard plug you too have in your phone already.. Why do we need an additional interface just for headphones when I can use the one that I already need to have in the first place?
You using obsolete technology doesn’t make it any less obsolete…
obsolete (adjective) No longer in use.
It does actually. The fact that I can go to literally any electronics store and choose from dozens of different 3.5mm jack headphones, the fact that my laptop, my PC, my BT headphones and my phone all bought within last 2 years have 3.5mm jack interface literally proves that it's not obsolete, it's still in use. I would say that in the near future it will slowly become niche (jack interfaces will be in use in musical instruments for a very long time. find a entry level electric instrument with BT please) but it's definitely not obsolete. You're making things up.
Yes, with time more and more people will buy USB-C headphones, it will become a standard and dropping jack will not be an issue but the problem is phones makers, following Apples stupid idea, started doing it first. One of phone's functions is being a portable music player. Why start removing jack where they are used the most? I wouldn't complain if my BT headphones used USB-C for wired play, they came with non-standard cables anyway. I use my PC with BT headphones (almost) exclusively, I wouldn't care if it dropped the jack. People complain because with phones they are losing function they actually used, not some obsolete port no one was using any more.
While I share your disgruntlement, this is both cheap and easy to use. Should you have to use it? No. Would needing it stop me from getting a phone I otherwise wanted? Zero chance.
How is it obsolete, I understand a lot of people not needing it but all Audiophile products still need a physical connection in the form of 2.5, 3.5 or 4.4mm jack. 3.5mm has been a standard for the longest time.
I'd rather have that instead of a additional adapter to connect my iems. Only benefit in my case was that it allowed me to use a balanced connection for the same added cost.
Pfft, real audiophiles will use a DAC or a DAP
Although I'm not willing to carry something additional to my phone and earbuds to listen to music.
Not the biggest priority while mobile, wired would have a bigger impact except high impedance or low sensitivity gear.
You don’t need a DAC if the phone has a jack, you only need one if it doesn’t, you might need a DAC/AMP for some headphones but most cans people will carry on the move will run just fine off an inbuilt jack.
How is it obsolete, I understand a lot of people not needing it but all Audiophile products
In my opinion, it's obsolete or outdated standard when it comes to modern smartphones.
I’d rather have that instead of a additional adapter to connect my iems.
Of course adapters are not an optimal solution, but again, USB headphones are a thing.. I definitely see the argument for wired headphones over wireless headphones, but I don't see a reason why we should use 3.5 mm audio when we can simply use USB, which is an interface that is already the standard..
3.5mm is an audio source, USB is a data source. Any headphone with a USB plug also has to convert digital to audio, something your phone already does. USB is not a replacement by any means.
USB headphones
Audiophile grade gear are meant to be connected to variety of devices through a standard. I'm not asking for a cheap usb headphone just to remove a cable. You're solving the wrong problem here.
Wireless earphones/headphones are more expensive and sometimes inconvenient. People defending companies say "you can get a pair of wireless buds for like 20 dollars" you can, but how much are they going to last and how shitty will they feel and sound? Even when buying them for a high price, their batteries will wear out. The worst thing is adding this port doesn't affect you in the slightest if you don't use wired headphones, so couldn't you just shut the fuck up if that's the case?
Wireless headphones aren't the only available option.. There are USB earplugs and there are adapters. The only argument you have is "but I can't charge my phone while listening to music"..
Yes but I have audiophile headphones that I used to be able to use on on my phone without needing a dongle which I lose and need to replace everytime I plug the headphones into something else Can u name a solution for this that doesn't involve replacing dongles constantly
It's useless to argue with this guy, he's just going around shouting that the audio jack is obsolete, doesn't even know what obsolete means and is just throwing a hissy fit.
He can't name a solution, it's just everyone's else problem that we want to use the better option.
One thing that saddens me as someone from a third world country when I see people with that attitude and supporting the corporations' decisions, is that I see how much we are fucked and we don't matter at all.
Any earphone option besides the ones with the jack are more expensive, even USB ones. Wireless phones are much more expensive, and the ones we can afford become defective so fast.
It's also sad to see people telling how the common stuff around me is obsolete. Well, I get it, we're the global waste from a capitalist view, but it still hurts to see it in action. (I wonder how people around here would react if they knew that microusb is still widely used around here and a lot of people don't even have type c cables)
In the end, companies will do anything they want and people will support them blindly. I just hope my current phone lasts for a good while, because not only I can't afford a new one, but, if I can't get one with an audio jack, I will simply have to listen to anything aloud for a long time.
You can say that something is obsolete when a superior alternative is created, and is widely available.
E.g. you can say that cassettes are obsolete because cds exist, or that cds are obsolete because of streaming (arguably), but saying that one of the most widespread and reliable connectors is obsolete just because you think it's old is just an idiotic thing to say.
On one hand i welcome what fairphone and also nokia, motorola and others are doing, making replacement parts available to the general public, but still i think Fairphone are huge hypocrites as of right now because of their choice and lame justifications. I expect this crap from apple, not from the "bastions of repairability and sustainability"
I think there are even dongles that let you charge while listening to music.
There are arguments saying the headphone jack takes up too much space which could be made room for something else like a bigger battery and more components. To that I say to take a look at the iphone 6 or phones nowadays that still retain the headphone jack. Absolute disgrace that everybody has jumped off the cliff with Apple.
You don't really need to make a post about not buying a produck ya know?
I have a few better (in my opinion) motives to why I am not getting any fair phone:
• There's not such a thing like ethical consume under capitalism.
• It isn't environmental good to change from a working phone to anything.
• The new costs above $600 and the old ones costs around $400. This is a bunch of money and here in my country is almost 2 monthly minimum wages, without taxes, of course.
So I am sticking with my old Samsung, thank you.
It isn't environmental good to change from a working phone to anything.
They keep saying that themselves, no one actually tries to sell you one if you have a phone already.
The most sustainable phone is the one you already have
Aham, all the people that are talking about buying one Fair phone these days doesn't already have cellphones. That's veeery credible...
There’s not such a thing like ethical consume under capitalism.
What's the conclusion of this claim? That we shouldn't consume anything at all? That it doesn't matter what we consume as it all is equally unethical?
Even if you believe that all consumption is unethical, there are still differences in impact and effect depending on what we consume and how much we consume.
It isn’t environmental good to change from a working phone to anything.
Of course not, but who is urging people to replace their new/working smartphone with a fairphone?
The new costs above $600 and the old ones costs around $400. This is a bunch of money
From a price/quality perspective, the fairphone has always been "bad".. You pay the price of a upper mid smartphone and get older mid tech. That's because the fairphone's main appeal is it's modularity and their focus on "sustainable" production, which of course has it's price.
If your main focus is price and affordability, the fairphone is a bad choice.
What is the conclusion of this statement?
First: nothing you buy will ever be free from exploitation under this system.
Second: buying one product over another will make no difference in society and the world.
Actually, this second conclusion is also a derivation of another statement: individuals do not change a society, collectives do. Boycotts, which are another attempt at conscious consumption, sometimes manage to shut down companies, but they never manage to end the harmful production pattern that these companies were applying in the first place.
And that doesn't mean we should stop consuming everything, because it's impossible to live without consuming.
In the end, conscious consumption only serves to feel good (falsely) about yourself. What is an honest reason to do something.
First: nothing you buy will ever be free from exploitation under this system.
Ok but again, even if you think so, there are still different degrees of exploitation. Saying "nothing I buy will ever be free from exploitation" can also be used as an argument not to care about exploitation at all..
buying one product over another will make no difference in society and the world.
Of course it will.. You can argue that the difference it makes is so small that it is essentially 0, but it still makes a difference..
but they never manage to end the harmful production pattern that these companies were applying in the first place.
Just because you buying a more sustainably produced smartphone doesn't solve all the problems in the world doesn't mean that it has 0 impact..
In the end, conscious consumption only serves to feel good (falsely) about yourself.
No, it also demonstrates a way to improve something, even if that improvement is minuscule.. It also shows the potential issues and problems that come with it.. I would never claim that somebody buying a fairphone is changing the world, of course that would be ridiculous. Individual consumer choices indeed don't have a big impact on systemic issues.
Hopefully by the time my s10e is ready for landfill companies will be making reasonably sized phones again. If I wanted a tablet I'd buy a fucking tablet.
The S23 is the same size.
Their software support is also yet to be proven. That's something they'd have to stick to for a long time before a general trust around their longevity is established.
sony still retains headphone jack on their flagship phone
I love my Xperia 1 IV! Expandable storage, headphone jack, great camera, no god aweful screen cutout, and a notification led!
I like my xperia 1iii. But, the main problem is fingerprint sensor is prone to break. But, it's ok.
TLDR: Long rant about modern smart phones.
I've concluded that it is impossible to get a new phone that has the features I want. Some phone manufacturer always seems to arbitrarily declare useful features/form factors obsolete, maybe replaces it with some new gimmick and gets the hype machine going so all the other manufacturers do the same in fear of becoming irrelevant.
I just wish that some day some company is going to create a smart phone with a reliable fingerprint reader on the back again where it is reachable by fingers on BOTH the left and right hand. Or that some manufacturer will create a phone with a smaller screen than 6 inches. Or god forbid a normal aspect ratio like 16:9 instead of the ridiculously long lightsabers they're making now. Then maybe it would be possible to get it out of my pocket while sitting down. Missing headphone jack is just a drop in the ocean IMO. There are so many other annoyances that I didn't use to have, but now is an issue with modern smart phones.
If I got the chance to dictate what the manufacturers should do. I would tell them to stop. The camera is good enough. Make it smaller and not protruding out the back of the phone so much. The SOC is fast enough. Make it more power efficient instead of chasing for the next GHz. The screen is large enough, just stop. If I wanted a larger screen I would use a tablet. Do some damn QA. Test the main functionality of a phone, which is communication, not game benchmarks, not who can take the prettiest picture of the moon. Is it possible to take the phone out of the pocket without accidentally hanging up on whoever is calling you? Is it possible to send and receive to/from SMS/MMS groups? Does the fingerprint reader actually work or does it just say "sorry too many tries" every time you take the phone out of the pocket before even touching the fingerprint reader?
Just had to get that out of my system :P
Edit: forgot ewaste link, added dates
Always great to be cautious of corporations and what PR they say until proven otherwise.
At the end of the day profit is the goal of corporations to a certain point.
We decide what we want to support, if they don't have what you want then you do not buy it.
Louis Rossmann videos on subject:
Fairphone thoughts & commentary with Louis Rossmann [Oct 11, 2021]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhLtyrRwGcg
The fairphone reduces ewaste - by removing the headphone jack.... [Sep 15, 2022]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRdL0StldJM
Why I was wrong about fairphone [Jan 3, 2023]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAogtqyN22M
edit: words and sentence
Wtf? You can use a $1 usb-c to audio jack dongle and use any headphones or headsets that you want. You don't have to use Bluetooth.