this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
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Carlos Santana, Alice Cooper, Róisín Murphy, Dave Chappelle, J.K. Rowling, Harry Jowsey, Bette Midler, Macy Gray, Kevin Hart, John Cleese

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[–] Quexotic 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I find this kind of article discouraging for two different reasons. First, the initial statement that it makes, what's on the surface. You see all these people making all these horrible comments and it's sad.

The other thing that's just as discouraging to me is the reaction. From what I understand the best way to approach this kind of thing is through education and compassion, ultimately leading to conversion.

You'll never convince anyone by screaming at them and you'll just bring yourself "to their level"

What I would like to see instead It's for everyone to be a little bit more like Daryl Davis. Now I understand that not everyone has the patience of Daryl Davis, but I think this man's example is the ultimate model to follow.

For those who don't already know, Daryl Davis is an African American blues musician but spent his free time converting a couple hundred Klan members from being racist. I understand that's a really clumsy way to say it but I really don't have a better term for that because people don't typically believe that people can be converted from racism. This dude did it.

What I find really discouraging is that the anger, the vitriol, the pain at hearing these things come out of people's faces is fully human, a natural response, a normal response. What I fear is that if we don't all become like Daryl will none of us survive. What I fear is that it's not fair to expect many people to become like Daryl at all.

There's just too much money to be made peddling rage.

[–] LinkOpensChest_wav 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Oh god, not this bullshit again

Transphobes can eat my ass

[–] Drewelite@lemmy.villa-straylight.social 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Ok well while they do that, they're still voting and spreading their ideas to like minded individuals. I'm not saying we normalize their behavior. Fuck that backwards shit. But your dismissive attitude only serves to alleviate your own burden of interacting with them and entrenching them further in their hatred of those with other options.

Feel free to disagree, because I definitely understand the mental difficulty of dealing with people that just want to hate. So I'd love an alternative. But treating people as disposable ain't it, I'm afraid.

[–] Quexotic 2 points 1 year ago

Thank you for responding with the eloquence that I simply do not have the mental energy to summon today. You've saved me some spoons. ❤️

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[–] cubedsteaks@lemmy.today 7 points 1 year ago (9 children)

What I would like to see instead It’s for everyone to be a little bit more like Daryl Davis. Now I understand that not everyone has the patience of Daryl Davis, but I think this man’s example is the ultimate model to follow.

damn that was an interesting read.

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This comment restored a little of my faith in humanity today. Thanks. I know a lot of people understand this. But the loudest people on the internet don't and that can be discouraging.

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Social change is created by social friction. It always has been and always will be.

And you're right, we won't change the bigots and pull them out of bigotry. But they're not the point. The goal is to challenge the social norms that they are creating, because it's those norms that create new bigots.

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[–] Metal_Zealot@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago

You could easily change the headline to "Out of touch old people you forgot about and still think it's 1975"

[–] HappyMeatbag 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have a little bit of sympathy for people who are from another era, and are stubborn but not intentionally hateful or dismissive. The Bette Midler quote is the only example from this article. Before, she’d never come across as someone who judges people or wants to treat them like second class citizens.

She should have kept her mouth shut, at least. Although making an uninformed remark is quicker and easier than educating yourself, I wish she had taken the time.

Santana, however, can kiss my ass.

[–] gk99 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have a little bit of sympathy for people who are from another era

I don't. Trans people are a new thing for me too, they didn't "exist" in my formative years. I grew up in Oklahoma surrounded by conservative Bible-belt redneck N-word-spouting family, at a public school where "gay" and "hermaphrodite" were used as gym insults. I'm a straight-passing white cis male with pretty blue eyes, the least oppressed motherfucker out here and a perfect candidate for growing up to be a shitty supremacist.

Yet I'm the farthest thing from one, because all it actually takes is asking myself "Why should I have a problem with this? Does it affect anyone other than the person being made happier?" When the answer comes up as "no," it's A-OK in my book. And don't get me started on the pricks who think "but I'm Christian!!!" is an excuse for anything, God is supposed to judge us, not my asshole neighbor Karen who grew up on leaded gas and cigarettes.

[–] HappyMeatbag 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Cool. Maintaining flexibility is hard. I wish more people were better at it.

Part of my “cut them a bit of slack” attitude comes from personal experience. I’ve been watching an otherwise good person shift gradually further right. Since retirement, they watch TV almost constantly, which unfortunately includes Fox News (I was going to say “too much Fox News”, but any amount of that crap is too much).

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Midler came up playing the NYC bathhouses which were essentially fuck clubs for gay men before AIDS shuttered them all. I have a difficult time seeing her being anti-LGBT given how gay her fan base traditionally was.

[–] nicktron@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

She’s not anti-gay, she’s anti-trans.

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Her comment sounds like she isn't anti trans but more has a problem with terms like birthing person instead of cis-woman or woman depending on context.

It's not anti-trans to suggest we use the term women rather than birthing person when discussing pregnancy fir example.

[–] Adramis 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

It's not strictly anti-trans, but it does erase entire swaths of people who are able to give birth but who aren't women. Birthing person is inclusive of women and everyone else. I don't understand the problem.

[–] Leshoyadut@fedia.io 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It also doesn’t refer to cis women who are unable to give birth for any variety of reasons. It’s specifically not referring to a pretty sizable group of cis women while also including people who aren’t cis women, because cis women aren’t the ones being referred to; birthing people are.

[–] Adramis 5 points 1 year ago

Didn't even think about that, that's a valid point. Thank you for bringing that up.

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why is it ok to force a descriptor on a group of people that do not identify with said term?

[–] Vodulas 4 points 1 year ago

Because it is meant to be used in healthcare care settings in reference to groups of people. It is a way more accurate and complete description of the cohort. Nobody is going around calling individual women "birthing people." Midler took a term out of context and tried to claim people are trying to erase women, which is classic TERF behavior

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[–] Chetzemoka@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Oh, I'm sure she's still very pro-LGB. Most TERFs are (for now at least). It's the T part of the equation that they think it's acceptable to hate

[–] gk99 18 points 1 year ago

TERFs may be the dumbest people alive. How are you going to be all about equality and acceptance after literally thousands of years of women being mistreated, only to turn around and do that to a different group and see no problem with it? Absolutely mindless.

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sounds like her issue is with terms like birthing person rather than cis-woman.

[–] Chetzemoka@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Those complaints originated in TERF circles

[–] gowan@reddthat.com 3 points 1 year ago

Ok that doesn't completely strip them of validity. I get why she would prefer to be calked a woman and take issue with her being assigned a different term just like I get why a transwoman would want to be called a woman rather than having a different term they do not identify with assigned to them.

[–] elfpie 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

But they are not equivalent. People that erase trans people read it like that and project. In a medical setting, the biology is important and the language makes sure all parts involved are included in the conversation.

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[–] FfaerieOxide@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This feels like giving these people—some of whom you haven't otherwise thought of in years—free press for being pieces of shit.

Why not do write ups on people not sucking?

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[–] liv 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I have never heard of Harry Jowsey, but if this write-up about him is accurate, it sounds like the author found nine celebrities making transphobic comments and then just added this random homophobe so that the headline could say 10? Am I missing something?

[–] BeMoreCareful@lemdro.id 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It was someone the author knew from school.

This'll show 'em

[–] liv 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ha ha! Not because I haven't heard of him, I meant the article's description of him is that he dated a trans woman and is supportive of transwomen.

The thing he did that's phobic, according to this article, is he called James Charles a f****, which is homophobic, not transphobic.

Ironically when I googled this I found James Charles seems to have said some transphobic things about not being 100% gay because he is attracted to transgender men. Maybe he could take this list slot.

[–] valentino@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Great celebrities

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