this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2023
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Asklemmy

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What can we do to keep the web open?

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[–] philluminati@lemmy.ml 131 points 1 year ago (4 children)
[–] mim@lemmy.sdf.org 57 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Shout-out to Librewolf as well (basically Firefox with better privacy focused configs).

People don't care enough about using browsers that reduce Google's influence on web standards (i.e. non chrome-based browsers)

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago

IME, big momentous events are actually continuous transitions that we only notice in a drastic moment.

This whole chrome thing has been building to this for ages. So beyond using Firefox, there’s also some basic principles that need to be formulated and distributed as “it’s free because you’re the product” is now … not to mention breaking up monopolies.

[–] jackfrost@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

And an alternate email service like ProtonMail.

They also have ProtonDrive as an alternative to Google Drive. Apple's iCloud is also end-to-end encrypted now. pCloud is another popular option. There are a number of choices for secure cloud storage these days.

Web search is a bit more difficult. DuckDuckGo is heavily integrated with Bing. Brave Search is hit-or-miss. Yahoo is just a front-end for Bing.

If you need live document collaboration, you're probably already in a setting where either Sharepoint or GSuite are mandated. If you're not, BitAI may be worth looking into.

[–] claycle@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

All great advice, but I personally cannot urge people towards pCloud. I have one of the permanent tiers, but I found the service frustratingly buggy and, when contacted, support was rude and unhelpful. There are so many little odd limitations on the pCloud file system it was frustrating. I also worry that their buy-once business model is not sustainable.

Sync.com provides an even more secure service (zero-knowledge across the board) with similar (better than US anyway) privacy protections in the host country (Canada) that has been, so far for 2 years of use, rock solid (I couldn't go a week without pCloud farting out some error). The subscription model is affordable and generous and the customer-facing pages for sharing files are very professional looking (important to me, because I professionally share files and pCloud looked like a hobbyist page in this regard AND leaked private information).

EDIT: Regarding iCloud. Not only is iCloud end-to-end, but you may turn on zero-knowledge encryption now, as well (Advanced Data Protection I think is what they call it) so that Apple doesn't even have the keys to decrypt your data, making it quite similar to sync.com now.

[–] protogen32@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

For web search, I always first try SearXNG, but if I dont find what I need, I use startpage.com (private frontend for google.com)

[–] utopia_dig@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

Kagi is also really nice. But it's not free..

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[–] persolb@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I am confused by why everyone thinks this is a big threat?

What stops the FOSS community from just continuing to allow ad blockers and other webpage editing features?

[–] fluffman86@lemmy.ml 51 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If the web is DRM'd in a way that requires chrome or windows then it could be difficult to bypass.

I remember the days of, "sorry, you must use Internet Explorer to use this website" when visiting my bank.

[–] Fredselfish@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago

I remember that government sites were the same way it was frustrating.

[–] unknowing8343@discuss.tchncs.de 33 points 1 year ago (14 children)

DRM is already applied for certain content in websites such as Netflix, etc, and it makes it waaaay harder to bypass.

For example, Netflix (and the others) use DRM to block Linux computers from higher quality content. Why? I guess "hackers" and "think of the children". Truth is... content is already pirated from the second it gets released on any of these platforms... so they are not really fixing anything... I guess they really want you to use a tracking OS.

Imagine this kind of system but for an entire website. Big companies imposing their devices and software as the only way to access a website... which is really just HTML and Javascript files, entirely platform agnostic... but who cares? They are struggling for money so they are squeezing every little possibility.

[–] Dubious_Fart@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Amazon too, Went freaking nuts trying to figure out why I couldnt watch any of my shit above like 180p quality on amazon. until I found out they intentionally and maliciously degrade the quality on non-windows machines.

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[–] haroldstork@lemm.ee 83 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Stop supporting those who intend to close it.

[–] philluminati@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I just want remind everyone that Windows 11 requires your computer to ship with TPM2.0 enabled. This will complete the circuit meaning remote streaming websites can ensure you don’t have DRM on your machine.

TPM is a security token loaded into the firmware of the BIOS put in by the manufacturer to ensure you haven’t tampered with the operating system as shipped and controlled by them.

That will be nice for those websites.

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[–] Sentinian@lemmy.one 55 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sticking to FOSS and decentralized apps as much as possible. And using less invasive apps like Firefox over chrome. Be willing to jump shit when corporate throws in bullshit if you have to use something closed.

This is the only way to slow the spread of enshittification around the web. It will be less convenient for the end user, but ultimately it's the only way to stop big companies from fucking the web

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[–] donut4ever@lemm.ee 54 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

As many people as ~~people~~ possible need to use Firefox.

[–] worfamerryman 16 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Twice in the past few months I came across a site that would not work with Firefox. The other time it actually did work, but said that it recommends chrome to function properly.

The first one was a local government form that would not let me select boxes, but chrome worked without any problems.

The second was some 3d game or something like that.

[–] donut4ever@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If it's a random site, then fuck it, I'll just not visit it again. That's their issue, not mine. If it is something important, I'd try changing the user agent. That works most of the time.

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[–] bingbong@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 year ago

Look into user agent extensions for Firefox. Sometimes tricking a website into thinking you're using chrome is enough to get the site to work.

[–] SamsonSeinfelder@feddit.de 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

Could you maybe still go back and find those links? I use FF for well over 10 years now. And I would say, the amount of websites that do not work, are less than one a year. The only reason are really bleeding edge css filter or MediaDevice instantiations (Webcam, etc.). Video, JS, and HTML is nearly Browser agnostic by this time. I would love to see those non working firefox websites everybody always talks about.

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[–] Dubious_Fart@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago

Biggest issue i've had is AMDRewards site not working on firefox. AMD just ignores the issue and treats it like its a bad redeem code issue, no matter how many times I've laid it out for them.

So 3 fucking times I've had to install the linux version of Edge, to redeem the code, and download the PVT, just to get my shit. (and immediately uninstall edge afterwards).

I miss the fucking days when they just put the cdkey in the box, and didnt treat me like a thieving piece of shit that had to go through 5 different hoops to prove to them I'm not.

[–] shrugal@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is one of the reasons to use FF. I know it can be a bit inconvenient, but these sites don't care about optimizing for anything but Chrome because it has such a huge market share.

And you can keep a second browser installed for the few times this happens, e.g. Chromium or Brave. Also an addon to change your user-agent string for a website works 90% of the time.

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[–] WeAreAllOne@lemm.ee 33 points 1 year ago

Support financially FOSS developers. And stop using corporate shit.

[–] Speiser0@feddit.de 28 points 1 year ago

Don't close the browser.

[–] ozoned 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Use tech and services outside the big tech. Just Fedi over standard social. Use Peertube instead of Youtube.

Run Firefox.

Set up your own servers for yourself or start a community. Matrix, Mastodon, Lemmy, etc.

Run SearXNG as your search or help others by hosting.

If you can work of free and open source code that helps decentralize and give the power back to the people or create something new. Even if you can code, learning a project and helping others with it or helping create docs, etc.

Spread the word, but don't be annoying. Help less technical folks get decentralized.

It's very difficult and can be disheartening, but you don't have to cold turkey all of it. Each drip in the bucket helps until we're all united and become a tidal wave.

When all the power is centralized that's when those central players think they can do whatever they want.

[–] meldrik@lemmy.wtf 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Instead of SearXNG which just uses big tech search engines, shouldn’t people use something like https://yacy.net instead? Just a thought.

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[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Start replacing your Google and Microsoft products and services with alternatives, bit by bit. Begin by switching to Firefox for the browser.

[–] heyfrancis@mastodon.social 5 points 1 year ago

@floofloof already using firefox to reply here from my mastodon to lemmy post. But definitely this is not enough.

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[–] Dubious_Fart@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 year ago

Fire a full Iowa class broadside of anti-monopoly legislation at google, and break it up into like 40 different companies.

and learn from the mistakes of ATT and NOT let them buy eachother back up to become an even bigger monster a few decades down the line.

[–] rufus@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Create good content and post it on a free platform. Also give it a permissive license.

[–] charje@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A free license is better. Corporations can benefit from the work under permissive license without giving back.

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[–] novibe@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago

I always wonder… can a truly open and free new internet be built? What would be the options in doing something like this? Maybe running on existing hardware (fibre, towers etc.) to a certain extent…

[–] Im28xwa@lemdro.id 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just like everyone else said spread the word and de google, Microsoft, apple, etc... your life

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[–] Mandy 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thats the neat part, you dont Cause unless they average populace starts caring about an open it will eventually become what Google truly wants, and we are well on our way there

[–] such_fifty_bucks@lemmy.one 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Google now controls

  • Access to the internet
  • Devices using that access
  • Software to access websites
  • Many of the website you use
  • The ads you see

But that's not enough, apparently

[–] Mandy 7 points 1 year ago

Its a mega Corp, its never enough

Why do we just get the suckyparts of cyberpunk man, thats so unfair

[–] whatisallthis@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Nothing. Everything good is eventually destroyed by greed. Just enjoy it while it lasts.

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

Down voted, but maybe not wrong?

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[–] banana_meccanica@feddit.it 6 points 1 year ago

Don't be greedy if you are a dev or owner of a website, what you make should be always 100% free from ads and trackers. If you are an user dont give away money to this pigs, if you need something don't rush to amazon but check some local web market first.

[–] selawdivad@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Use RSS. Find good independent blogs which meet your standards of good open web content and subscribe to them. Some places to look:

Also, start your own website/blog and link to other websites and blogs.

[–] AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I know it's not all that logical and would probably only end up making things worse, but stopping the google DRM thing by literally going to google headquarters and doing something similar to the January 6th Capital Hill attack in Washington DC.

As long as you could get enough people to be quiet about it and form a large enough group, you could definitely perform a large scale attack on their HQ and as long as the info doesn't slip out, you can easily overwhelm them since they won't see it coming and won't have enough guards/police on site.

The only thing is you have to hold the big corporate bigwigs hostage and make sure the negotiations end with either them being killed for their crimes against freedom or that all their services get shut down permanently and they get to live. Just be sure to slaughter as many employees as possible to show those bigwigs you mean business and aren't there just to have a tea party.

The only way we are ever going to get the people in high places to listen is either through murdering them or scaring them so much that they listen to our demands.

A similar scenario to this would be when actual Chinese citizens in China were protesting and essentially shouting in the streets for the government and Xi the Pooh to step down. Only difference is that if we started to disappear after all of this hypothetical situation, there would be cause for an even bigger spark as people would definitely start to wonder what the fuck happened and it would spread so much faster than these tech giants could censor. Everyone would be sharing links/posts/screenshots (both truthful and untruthful) as you don't just sit there wondering why a shit ton of the protesters/"domestic terrorists" just suddenly disappears in America (especially if you are a parent or close to one or more of them).

Hell, you could even upload videos of what happened to sites Rumble or maybe Odysee and I can probably guarantee people there are gonna share and make that shit spread like wildfire since it probably won't be censored and taken down right away compared to if it was uploaded to yt, where it would disappear faster than the braincells of a newborn CEO.

In summary, I am in full support of absolutely going full on French Revolution on the rich and recording it for future generations.

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[–] bloodfart@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

They’re doing this because the rate of profit fell.

Either take control of the means of production or give capital another profitable busybox (some new way to destroy a poor country).

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