this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2025
36 points (100.0% liked)

Asklemmy

1463 readers
61 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy πŸ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Edit: I don't mean someone that will sacrifice their life for yours, more someone who would go out of their way to rush you to the hospital or something

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Dyskolos@lemmy.zip 15 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Having lived here for over half a century now, and having met a ton of people and having get to know a solid portion of them better, I could safely say:

My wife and myself. The rest I would not bet a TicTac on. Homo homini lupus est. People are nice to you, even seem like "good people", but, as another comment or already said, people are contextual.

Be a tiny bit different from the mass and you'd notice why. People are nice to you as long as you provide some kind of benefit to them. Now or in the future. Even worse if you have money and they know it.

Yet, Despite me being misanthropic as hell, I still do care about my fellow species-members (everything living actually) and do voluntary work for disabled people and stuff like that. And yes, I know that most of them would probably sell me to one of Dante's circles of hell to get rid of their disability. But there are always some pearls somewhere in the ocean. It's worth finding them. Tiresome and frustrating, but worth it.

[–] ReanuKeeves@lemm.ee 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

This is a realistic mindset

[–] Diddlydee@feddit.uk 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

People being nice to you only if you provide a benefit to them is certainly not something I've experienced in general. Sounds like this person knows lots of assholes.

[–] Dyskolos@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 week ago

It does not always have to be obvious to you as to what their benefit in you actually is. Doesn't mean they won't see one in you. Sometimes it's very abstract not clearly superficial. You will notice if you somehow loose that benefit. And yes, met many assholes. Almost exclusively. Hence the point. But I'm very picky with people.

[–] ReanuKeeves@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago

I've also almost met exclusively assholes, it happens

[–] Dyskolos@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 week ago

I'd trade it for a more oblivious anytime 😁

[–] snek_boi@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

The answer is contextual, just like people are contextual. Sometimes, my circles are all busy or stressed out and we can’t really be there for each other. Other times, strangers have saved me, like the couple that took me in when lockdowns started and I was far from home.

Have you heard of the Stanford Prison Experiment? Or the Princeton Seminarian experiment? Or the Milgram Experiment? All of them confirm that people are contextual. That’s lesson 1 in psychology, but we humans easily forget it. We focus on the person and forget the context. That folly of ours even has a name: Fundamental Attribution Error.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 14 points 1 week ago

Fwiw Stanford was basically a scam. The story as it's usually told is a lie, and its results are in serious contention, even beyond the usual replication issues psychology studies have.

Milgram is a good study, and even seems to have survived multiple replication attenpts, but its results are often overstated in their broader applicability. Notably: there are issues around the idea that it is "authority" that causes people to comply, as is usually claimed, instead of a belief in "expertise" or trust in the system (e.g. that a university-authorised study is obviously not going to kill people). Still, the conclusions are good enough for the purposes of your comment here.

[–] AlternateRoute@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 week ago

There is a big difference between a good person that will not intentionally do you harm and is happy to help vs one that would enter risk to save you in life or death.

I know lots of people I am confident would do me no harm and treat me well. I know a few that do not care / can’t be trusted.

As for my life that is fairly limited to select family and a few friends.

[–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Until recently I would have said 0%, but probably 95% of my current friends would rush me to a hospital (if it was physically possible) the other 5% are perpetually busy and would probably find someone who could.

[–] ReanuKeeves@lemm.ee 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 6 points 1 week ago

I found a group of people who actually give a fuck about each other. I am never letting them go. They are stuck with me now.

[–] Alice 7 points 1 week ago

There are a lot of people who would rush me to the hospital but also voted to take away my rights and worse. I don't know if I believe in good people these days.

[–] hanrahan@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Im 58, I've et 4 people in my life I'd classify as "good". Im with one and I'm not one.

All 4 are women, which gives me pause as a guy.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

[–] digdilem@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 week ago

"Good" or "trust my life with"? The two can be mutually exclusive. If I was in the wrong, would a good person defend me?

I've met a few people with genuinely good morals in my life. They do exist and are almost incorruptible. Most people are flexible in that we can make justifications for almost anything.

[–] Achyu@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I think most of my friends and even acquaintances would rush me to a hospital.
I think more than 50% of the people I know would do that.

Regarding genuinely good and trusting my life, that would would be smaller.

A question on the other view tho:
Would you(not OP only) be that genuinely good person for someone? As a guess, in your view how many people would see you like that?

I think only my family and maybe close friends would see me like that.

Regarding getting people to a hospital, I think the 50% stuff would apply to me too.

[–] ReanuKeeves@lemm.ee 3 points 1 week ago

I unfortunately would help out 99% of people

[–] mortemtyrannis@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I think the number is a lot higher and the barrier of trust a lot lower than people think.

If you come across a vehicle accident and you are able to help someone generally people don’t even think and just take action to save another persons life.

In reactionary scenarios where direct intervention saves someone’s life, people help a lot more than you’d think.

As a species we generally have a bypass in our brains that makes us want to help others in desperate need.

[–] Kwakigra 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think it's dangerous to consider anyone to be a fundamentally good person or a fundamentally bad person. It's impossible to know what someone is internally and I am not a believer in determinism. Every person is complex and capable of good and evil acts depending on their circumstances.

Especially when you live in a cutthroat competitive culture in which what little to win is jealously guarded by narcissistic psychopaths, many people understand at least on some level that public behavior is a performance intended to reap rewards rather than an honest presentation of oneself. Good and evil is inapplicable here. Our system is amoral, and we human animals are just going to do what we consider to be a good idea at a time and only a few of us really consider the ethics of what we're going to do before we do it, and the few of us capable of that only do it some of the time.

Someone can do the right thing for the right reasons, the right thing for the wrong reasons, the wrong thing for the right reasons, or the wrong things for the wrong reasons. I can never know their internal part, just base my expectations on how their behavior effects me and others. I wouldn't trust anyone until I consider them to be trustworthy, though I can't expect to always be right about that either.

[–] ReanuKeeves@lemm.ee 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Your comment seems to be conflicting

[–] Kwakigra 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] ReanuKeeves@lemm.ee 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You recognize that our world breeds narcissistic psychopaths so you likely understand it would be in your best interest to avoid them but you also don't think you should make judgements on people's character

[–] Kwakigra 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Being a narcissistic psychopath is a circumstance, not an expression of internal evil. Narcissistic psychopaths are also capable of doing the right things for the right reasons as well as for the wrong reasons. The reason I advocate against guessing people's internal morality is mainly practical for my own relationships, but also is to encourage people to fix systemic problems instead of pretending some malicious force of evil is omnipresently working against the interests of mankind as many religious people believe. In a better system, narcissistic psychopaths could get what they want without harming others for their ends.

[–] ReanuKeeves@lemm.ee 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

You're right in that the majority of people have terrible judgement, not everyone has training to recognize personality traits and often make horrible assumptions. But at the core of it, if you strive for a society with as little conflict as possible, you require the general to care about the general.

A narcissistic psychopath is inherently, by definition, incapable of doing that naturally. They can mask and imititate but left to their own devices they will always be a detriment to society as a whole. Narcissism, lack of empathy and remorse, manipulation are all grouped as Anti-Social Personality Disorders for a reason.

They aren't anti-social in the sense that they don't like to party, they are anti-social in the sense that their goals do not align with a properly functioning society.

[–] Kwakigra 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Fortunately in your example, the general can still serve the general as anti-social personality disorders will always be in the minority especially if that society functions properly for the general welfare of its people. As for doing it naturally, we naturally live in hunter-gatherer bands. Society is fully socially constructed and requires all of us to resist many aspects of our natures for it to function in a way that benefits us.

What I am arguing for is that these individuals are honestly acknowledged for their tendencies and deficits so that they can get the help they need while serving in a capacity which limits their ability to harm others due to their negligence and benefits others by utilizing their strengths. A psychopath can understand that it is in their self-interest to live in a stable friendly society. Honestly I don't personally know to integrate a full-blown narcissist, but I expect it's possible. I don't think it's possible or advisable to make any effort to remove all psychopaths and narcissists from society since eugenic thinking is responsible for many of the worst atrocities in human history.

[–] ReanuKeeves@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Do you see any current day examples of how a minority of people acting with machevellianism can rise to positions of power because they are willing to trample everyone in their path with complete disregard for human life?

I'm not advocating eugenics unless you think prison counts

[–] Kwakigra 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yes, our system is cutrently built for that. An optimal system wouldn't allow for it. We have obviously not discovered the optimal system yet but we can identify the fundamental issues of our present systems. Prison is another fundamentally flawed system which causes a lot of its own problems. I would prefer a victim focused restorative model to imprisoning groups of people based on diagnostic critera written by people who think you need to imprison groups of people based on diagnostic critera.

[–] ReanuKeeves@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The system is built by the society, the rules they enforce. The purpose of a prison system should be to separate the bad apples from the good, rehabilitate the ones we can and keep the lost causes away from vulnerable people. I'm sure you know that this hasn't been enforced very well, especially when it comes to the most sensitive positions of power.

I'm not saying we should try to prevent crimes that haven't happened by locking people up right away, I'm saying we should take sociopathic tendencies a bit more seriously and address them directly with trained professionals rather than waiting for them to cause damage. That would require judging people's character.

If you've ever been the innocent victim of any crimes I think you would likely say you wish someone saw the signs earlier, and if the criminal doesn't get more than a slap on the hand you would likely agree that our society is corrupt and broken. That it would seem the end goal is not to protect the herd, but rather provide a facade for evil to hide behind.

[–] Kwakigra 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I’m saying we should take sociopathic tendencies a bit more seriously and address them directly with trained professionals rather than waiting for them to cause damage. That would require judging people’s character.

This is where we agree. If every narcissist, sociopath, psychopath, pedophile, etc could be open about their tendencies and receive specialized assistance and accommodation before they commit a crime due to mismanaged illness it would be ideal. The only thing I disagree about is that these are not representations of internal character but are illnesses. For example, the pedophile who gets accommodation and doesn't go near children is doing less evil and probably has a better character than a preacher who uses his position to abuse young boys because he likes the feeling of power but isn't a pedophile (this happens).

I have indeed been the innocent victim of narcissistic abuse. It would indeed have been much better if my parents worked through their trauma before me or during my childhood rather than never. Narcissistic tendencies weren't considered dangerous when they were young though, as evidenced by almost the entire boomer generation. If we were living in stronger communities cooperating with one another instead of competing, I think those narcissistic tendencies either never would have existed to begin with or would have been recognized and counterbalanced by other community members. I do not think I would have been better off if they were punished, but it's likely it would have made my situation worse. At this point I'm more concerned with my own well-being than getting retribution.

I think evil behavior should be denounced and everyone should be encouraged in every way on every level to do good rather than evil to one another. I want to be clear that I am expressing that no one has the excuse of their poor internal nature to do evil things. Everyone is capable of both good and evil and everyone regardless of their condition is fully responsible for their behavior. There's no obfuscating evil in my arguments. I am arguing that the social structure supporting instead of preventing and/or condemning these evil behaviors is the problem rather than some people being good and others being evil.

[–] ReanuKeeves@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

An illness can be defined as something acquired whereas chemical imbalances, brains wired differently than "average" are inherent. Think of it as diabetes type 1 and 2. One you are born with and the other is one you develope.

A pedophile who does not act on their impulses is the same as a psychopath masking their personality. They are inhibiting who they are and if not given the proper support and monitoring will cause damage to others.

Historical psychopathy is a whole other issue which we would need to discuss lead poisoning.

I'm not promoting retribution, I stated rehabilitation and professional help a couple times. I'm not arguing with you, I am trying to understand why you believe people should not be judged yet understand there are natural born killers in society.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] termaxima@jlai.lu 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Genuinely good person : 99% Trust with my life : 10%

The main issue about the second thing is that I wouldn’t expect someone I barely know to risk their life for me. I don’t think this makes them bad people, though. I think it’s reasonable.

[–] ReanuKeeves@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago

You truly believe nearly all people you've met are good hearted? I'd like to move there!

[–] anothermember@feddit.uk 4 points 1 week ago

I would say the vast majority of people are good, however people are flawed so a lot of people are bad at being good.

[–] Diddlydee@feddit.uk 3 points 1 week ago

Percentage is an odd way to measure it. I'm sure I've met thousands of people but would know scores who would rush me to hospital if I needed it as per your example. Still a pretty small percentage.

[–] MoreFPSmorebetter@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

0%

I don't think it's wise to ever trust another person 100%. You should be aware that anyone could turn on you in the correct situation with the correct pressures.

[–] digdilem@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You're right, but sometimes you need someone to hold the other end of the rope when you lower yourself over a cliff.

Unfortunately if I'm going over a cliff it's a solo adventure and I don't plan on coming back up.

[–] crazyminner@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] MoreFPSmorebetter@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] Umbrias 2 points 1 week ago (5 children)

the sort of logic that's fundamentally irrational.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] vfreire85@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago

just a few and that's ok. people will make good and bad things and there are a few with whom you'll really get along with. keep them close.

[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago

Zero, but I've heard rumors they exist.

[–] edel@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago

That is very hard to asses. I prefer to look it like this, what chances is that you will find a partner (like for marry to) out of 100 or so. I do believe, if given equal chance of interaction, you could find a marrying-material partner every 7 or 8 people. Now, in a world of plenty of choices, biases etc, we shuffle through hundreds of people before settling with one... and, even then, still unhappy with the choice for the people we haven gone through yet in our search. Now, that is for me... Chances is you would choose a different person out of these very same 7 to 8 people. Both chosen persons have the same chance of being equally good persons, as the non chosen ones.

[–] the_q@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

There are no good or bad people.

[–] venotic@kbin.melroy.org 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Ah yes, John Wayne Gacy, what a terrible loss for society! /s

The fuck out of here, you dumbass.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] ReanuKeeves@lemm.ee 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Can you tell me why you believe serial killers are neither good or bad

[–] the_q@lemm.ee 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

They do bad things. If a rabid dog attacks a child, killing it, is the dog bad? If a priest gives comfort to a dying man then molests a child is he good then bad? No he's neither. The actions are good or bad; the individual is neither.

[–] ReanuKeeves@lemm.ee 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

You do understand dogs that attack people unprovoked are put down everyday right? And to compare a dog's critical thinking to a human's is asinine.

A priest is allowed to molest kids as long as he does good things to balance it? If you truly believe that then you are out of your mind.

You've got an interesting sense of logic

[–] the_q@lemm.ee 2 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Look, you can interpret what I said anyway you like, but regardless I'm correct. If a serial killer believes himself to be "good" and you believe him to be "bad" which one of you is correct? How about a man that wants so badly to murder everyone he meets but doesn't ever do it? Is he a good man as long as he doesn't act?

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: next β€Ί