this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2024
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Hersh, Eitan; Royden, Laura (25 June 2022). "Antisemitic Attitudes Across the Ideological Spectrum" Political Research Quarterly.

doi:10.1177/10659129221111081

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[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 57 points 4 months ago

Memes that come with citations? Now that’s how you shitpost.

[–] Rooskie91@discuss.online 43 points 4 months ago

I will believe in horseshoe theory when a fascist moves so far right that they accidently create a stateless, moneyless utopia.

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 24 points 4 months ago

Look, can't we just find some common ground and meet in the middle?

...hmm.

Alternatively

...double hmm.

[–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The main job of fascism is to protect capital when the majority of the working population grows disillusioned with capitalism and might get the wrong ideas about socialist revolution and stuff

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 13 points 4 months ago

I just want to point out that not all fascists are Nazis. Can I point that out without getting crucified?

I will clarify that if you're any kind of fascist, you're a trash person, doubly so for Nazis specifically... But not all fascists are Nazis. Which the OP chart seems to imply.

To drive my point home, I'll quote Wikipedia: fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Nowhere in there does it say that fascists are anti-Semites, nor white supremacist. Those ideologies are generally attributed to specific fascist ideologies... Eg. Nazis.

Let's not sugar coat what people are. If they're Nazi fucks, let's call them Nazi fucks.

[–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Am i that much more extreme for thinking that the best solution for Nazis isn’t discriminating against them but educating people to respect so Fascist ideal can no longer take hold?

I know of intolerance for the intolerant, I've spread that message myself i am just no longer convinced that burying the problem into private conversations only (Which should be absolute free speech unless you want some sort of police control inside your home) is tackling the problem at the source.

My wish is to eradicate this ideology once and for all not to hide it like we try to do with homeless in rich neighborhoods.

[–] match@pawb.social 20 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Education is better and preferred but ocne5 the Nazis are in the street they've already taken hold and need to be uprooted before we can go back to educating it away.

[–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Once there in the in the streets and are expressing their hostility toward others it becomes self defense to push back.

Nazis should be either

  • spouting their shit in private so their social circle gets the message that their guy is sick and probably needs therapy.

  • in therapy where no speech is taboo and the goal is to improve themselves.

  • in public, not expressing their shit because there starting to understand that its wrong, therapy is long term ongoing progress.

Where they definitively shouldn’t be and i would regard as a hostile act.

  • marching down the streets in group with firearms.
[–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Horseshoe theory is dumb, but it's really just an observation of the loudest ideologies on the far left and far right, which both happen to be authoritarian. Authoritarianism becomes necessary as you move toward the extremes because you have to coerce some people/classes to accept the system. And it's true that real-world instances of both Fascism and Communism have been authoritarian, and so they share some things in common. It isn't a particularly nuanced or deep understanding, but it is true that authoritarian forms of gov't are authoritarian. The difference lies in the details. Communists used authoritarianism against capitalists and the nobility, and fascists used it against minorities. Horseshoe theory conflates "authoritarianism" with extreme Left and Right-wing ideologies. This contrasts against anarchism (and by extension the broad anti fascist movement), of course, which is extremely anti-authoritarian (hence why horseshoe theory completely falls apart here).

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Authoritarianism becomes necessary as you move toward the extremes because you have to coerce some people/classes to accept the system.

Why is this only necessary at the extremes? I don't want to accept the current system I live under, but I'm coerced into complying with it through force (police).

[–] ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I'd argue that: 1) what is extreme changes over time, 2) a system of government being extreme de facto means it will have less support; the more support it has, the less extreme it is by definition, 3) the less support a system of government hass, the more force will be required to maintain it.

I am also under a system of government that is oppressive and monopolizes violence, but if the government had less popular support, I fully believe it would proportionally ramp up the oppression and violence. In fact, I'd argue that it's currently happening in the US.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 months ago

I don't know that I agree with your definition of extreme. On the one hand, there's popularity of various ideas, and on the other, there's how much the idea differs from the way things are currently done. It's possible for an idea drastically different from the status quo to be popular, but it would still be considered extreme because of how big of a change it would be.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 7 points 4 months ago

Guys, regarding white ethnonationalism: the key word here is egregious.

Sure, you got fascists who are not ethnonationalists. Or who are ethnonationalists towards another "race", such as the Hindutva ideology. However, white ethnonationalists are an egregious example. They exemplify the issue with fascism amazingly well, because they're the worst of the worst, and they're extra common.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 7 points 4 months ago

Thing is left right isn't much of a line, no matter what shape it is.

The right is a point, they'll get behind a populist and go to jail for them.

The left is a scattered mess of disagreeing elements who hate each other almost as much as they hate the far right.

And of course they both hate the dreaded "liberals".

[–] GarlicToast@programming.dev 3 points 4 months ago (4 children)

This shit is so misleading. Fascism isn't the only authoritarianism. They too are anti-fascists. But you don't get free speech.

Nor is it a white only problem, or deadly only to Jewish people.

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[–] NekoKamiGuru@ttrpg.network 2 points 4 months ago

Antifa has not been taking much action against the violence directed at Jewish students at colleges around the world , despite the fact that many of these Jewish students are not Zionists, they are just identifiable as Jewish and so are conflated into being Zionists.