but we never do aggressive things
Holy snapping duckshit you’re so far removed from reality that you’re in your own separate omniverse and that’s absolutely impossible
this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
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Eh.... I mean, she's talking about Russians, not Russia. Like, how individuals act. I think that there's probably a case that judging national character based on country policy is kinda frustrating. You go back a couple hundred years, and it was pretty common for Empire A to go take over nearby Country B if it could. I think most people had a national leader somewhere back in time who probably did some fairly unpleasant stuff.
Like, Putin's running Russia. And Putin's Russian. And Putin affects a lot of Russians, and has a lot of ability to direct the actions of a lot of Russians. But Putin also isn't what it means to be Russian.
Like, say you're German, and Hitler is in power, right? I mean, I'm not saying that there weren't Germans who didn't do some pretty unpleasant stuff during that period. Or that people weren't pretty pissed at Germans at that point. But, like...Hitler also isn't what it means to be German.
Here are a bunch of Russians that came over to the US or their kids.
Isaac Asimov, Michael Bay, Bernie Sanders. I think that most people aren't gonna say "Ah, Russia is doing X, so they are bad people". She didn't make the call to attack Ukraine. She's not killing people in Ukraine. She's not even in Russia...in fact, it sounds like she's in Mexico because she's trying to leave Russia, which I imagine isn't all that easy. Like, she's upset because she's being judged on her nationality. I mean, I get that.
Taking out anger at Putin on her doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Your Hitler example is perfect IMO. There were many beyond Hitler in Germany that deserved the hatred directed at them whether directly through horrific acts or indirectly due to their apathy or ignorance. The civilians in the towns directly adjacent to liberated concentration camps were forced by allied forces to aid in the cleanup and recovery of the camps and their victims. Many of these 'innocent Germans' expressed outrage at their 'undeserved' treatment like as seen in this video. They didn't deserve sympathy either.
At a certain point 'I am just an innocent wittle civilian who has done nothing wrong' is a cop-out. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good [people] should do nothing" -Burke.
To be clear this isn't to justify warcrimes on civilians. It is merely to say her crocodile tears fall on deaf ears.
Fun fact - Hitler was elected.
There's potential evil in everyone, born everywhere. It's hard for most people to swallow, but it's true.
Putin was elected too.
...
Bwahahahah! Sorry, almost made it through with a straight face.
He actually never had a free and fair election, as far as I know. Yeltsin won fair and square the first time around, but rigged his second election and then appointed Putin.
@tal @don True, but there is also the argument (somewhat theoretical) that, if these people had stayed where they were, they might have changed the course of history. Maybe. Or not. We might also have completely lost them and their contributions to the world. Who's to say? And, no, leaving Russia is not easy right now. She's risking not just her life, but that of family left behind. It's brutal to live in Russia now.
I watched it a few times and I think I broke the code. She's talking like the issue is that she's suffering all this anti-Russian-person racism everywhere she goes, but it's pretty unlikely that anything like that is happening. But something made her upset.
I think she wants to come into the US, and US immigration doesn't want her to, and she identifies that as "hatred" for the Russians because she's supposed to be able to do whatever she wants because she's Russian, and not have to do some kind of dodge through Mexico and not have to follow oppressive rules like these Mexicans and Brazilians that she mentions. She feels humiliated that she has to ask permission, and maybe the answer will be no fuck off get lost.
Honestly, I will be the last person to say that US immigration is always decent and fair. But someone not being nice to you or treating you special is not the same as them hating you. If you want to say US immigration is being a pain in the ass and it's unfair that it's gonna fuck up your life, then fine. But saying you need to be exempt from it because you're Russian specifically, makes you into a special specific kind of person.
Granted last time I crossed the border was in 2000, but I think your right and this is basic Karen behavior. She probably expected to cross without even identifying herself. I was allowed to cross with one question, but as I said that was awhile ago.
Hm, I interpreted it a little differently -- that she was talking about coming into the US to stay and live here ("we lived in Brazil for half a year" "we need to get to the US" "I want a calmer environment"), and that's a whooole different story.
This is pure guesswork, but it sounds like maybe she knew it would be a problem so she asked the immigration guy to just write her down as British to solve the problem, and he wasn't friendly about that suggestion and long story short no she can't come in the country, stay in Mexico, good luck, next in line please. And she interpreted it within this sort of framework appropriate to traveling around in places where she was used to, like a more smekalka system and being able to travel around like she wanted, and thought he was just being a dick about it and about the way he dealt with her in general, because of some personal racism towards her or something.
That would actually be a lot more charitable interpretation towards her than what I originally said "I'm Russian so I should get to do what I want." It might just be a genuine cultural thing that she ran into that she really doesn't understand. IDK though; I mean the truth is I'm purely just guessing.
But overall, I definitely think she was trying to come into the US to stay and live here, and having trouble with it (because it's real real difficult for anyone from almost any country, generally speaking), and that's why she's so upset.
it's the invading of soverign nations... multiple times....
oh and all the war crimes
Now why would the world hate russia, hmmm? Could it be the war and killing you do in Ukraine? The threats against other democracies? The bullying of other countries and persons? The megalomaniac tendencies of that monkey putin?
No sympathy from me...
Here's a kind reminder that the Russian state is not the Russian people and there are plenty of examples throughout history of people being complacent. There are very few examples of a state so corrupt as Russia, where politicians, oligarchs and literal mafia have a hidden understanding and the system of law is just a dog and pony show.
That being said, empower Russians in diaspora, here in Europe and in the US, that seek to depose Putin, that seek to inform the Russian people. I'm saying Russia needs it's own IRA and certain buildings need to go boom, not because Ukraine, but because of Russians.
Be their ally, and for God's sake, don't use fucking Telegram to communicate with them.
Sorry, but no. We're far too long into this bullshit by now, with Russia now pushing towards WW3. If you're after all this shit still in Russia and not actively righting the regime, as if all of this doesn't concern you, then you're part oft he problem. Just like the Germans in Nazi Germany at the time who just looked away, despite knowing what was happening.
People in power are put into or were allowed to seize that power. Not saying 100% of russia is behind putin but enough are. For me russians are part of the proble and I will not defer to putin and make him a scapegoat. russians need to take responsibility and until they do, I have no kindness or consideration for them.
Nuance is all fine and well, I bet the people getting raped and killed will have (had) a different opinion. I will stand with Ukraine if you do not mind and leave sympathy where it belongs: Ukraine
It is really difficult to believe morons like this exist.
I would argue that most people are almost completely oblivious to the world around them. This lady has been fed pro Russian propaganda her whole life so of course the real world is shocking. How could everything she was taught be wrong?
Instead of whining to the camera, they could just do a quick google search, with all the same questions, instead of blaming the whole world.
Instead, we got this "why are people so mean to russians, we are the best" overdramatic nonsense, because her daddy's money couldn't buy her something in the real world.
These are, of course, assumptions.
This, I agree. A moment of revelation is a shock. People will even become violent to defend their version of reality.
The fight scene in They Live is a good example. He wants him to put the glasses on to see reality, the other man simply refuses, things get violent.
And exactly, how could everything he know be wrong without the glasses? This drives his behavior.
Why are they a moron?
Because you have to be so deep up your own ass to purposefully ignore information about the atrocities committed by your country, that you could probably see the light through your mouth.
I sort kind of undertand brainwashed russians living in a russian bubble, with no access to outside information. Fine, you're fed shit all your life, so that's the only desert you've had and that's the only desert you want/need.
But this moron is out in the free world, and simply cannot underatand why, oh why could people be weary of russians? Truly the pinnacle of evolution.
Why is the same attitude not conveyed towards north korean escapees?
North Korean escapees almost exclusively did so against the wishes of their government, and almost certainly have a dim view of them. This is likely reflected in the view other people have of them.
Russian citizens are almost all free to leave, and often still have a positive view of their home country.
That's a really interesting point. Maybe because the North Korean govt is seen as persecuting it's citizens. Therefore it's citizens are seen as the victims (despite some citizens being the perpetrators).
Whereas Russian citizens are seen as the perpetrators (as invading soldiers) along with the leadership and surrounding countries are seen as the victims.
I agree. I think this is spot on. It's the context. If I see Russians traveling around right now, I assume they are traveling to avoid the war, but aren't against it happening. I feel like with these videos, it's always the Russians that are puppets to their government. Never the ones that oppose the war.
Russians that legitimately want nothing to do with their government/ want peace are cool though.
This video seemed like she was lacking an outside perspective. She says she's seeking a calmer place to live, but it sounds like she doesn't understand the context that everyone else has. Everyone is eyeing Russians right now because nobody wants a bunch of warmongers moving into their country. I'm not saying all Russians are like that, but nobody knows if a person is or not. So they're making quick judgement
I'm not sure how it is in Mexico/south America but I know in Canada we have a cultural melting pot, but people bring their past quarrels with them into the country. So you have a bunch of people living in Canada that will occasionally fight each other because of what Is happening in their original countries. Nobody wants to deal with that
I feel like with these videos, it’s always the Russians that are puppets to their government. Never the ones that oppose the war.
Yes and no, it's not like e.g. NFKRZ doesn't complain about things like banking sanctions and the increased difficulty of getting visas.
I’m not saying all Russians are like that, but nobody knows if a person is or not. So they’re making quick judgement
With many, it's easy to tell, straight up Z people generally tell on themselves very quickly, Anti-Z folks are also easy to spot even if they're holding back (just because you're not in Russia right now doesn't mean that there's no consequences for your speech), it's the depoliticised bunch that's the issue. In more than one way. OTOH while those may have an absolute void of an opinion on the war in particular, they generally do have a sensible opinion on civilian casualties and stuff.
Or, differently put: It's all too easy to ignore all that, to avoid looking at the actual person, by making too quick a judgement.
Why do you assume the Russians that are fleeing are simultaneously agreeing with the actions of the country they fled?
Because in the video she declares "Russians are a nationalist people" and simultaneously not once clarifies that she disagrees with the government. When you say you love your country it is assumed you mean its government too unless you say otherwise.
They are raised from birth to hate the West and believe their tyrannical government's lies. This compounds the need to expressly rebuke Putin etc for Russians looking for sympathy.
I've heard that some of the wealthy are fleeing so that they don't get affected by the war directly. I assume some are waiting for it to blow over and will return when it's done. Or some might just set up somewhere else.
Of course, it's impossible to tell without the whole picture (which we rarely have). I'm purely basing this off of what I have read and the videos I've seen. So I could be entirely wrong.
So why target people emigrating AWAY from that?
While Russia is fascist as heck, it is still substantially easier to emigrate from Russia than it is to emigrate from North Korea. Also, while there is a powerful state media in Russia, they do not have complete (or near complete) control over every line of communication in and out of the country as is the case in North Korea. There's also the matter of relative wealth and ability to defy/evade government control by way of travel/media consumption/emigration.
Cannot fathom the selective hatred and racism here. Is everyone racist to every nationality every time their government does something abhorrent? Where is the hatred towards North Korean escapees? Where is the hatred towards the Chinese around the world? I could go on.. do you hate many Africans because their governments kill people for being gay?
Somehow seemingly only Russian people are villified around the world for the actions of the government
Yeah. People just like hating on "evil" nations and she's here as a representative and open for people to start trashing her, so yeehaw here we go. Personally I've actually really liked Russians on an individual level any time I have interacted with them; they're generally kind of cocky / abrasive I guess, but they get shit done.
Also, she's coming across as kind of a bad person which makes it easy to start bashing her. But yeah I mostly agree with you. She didn't war crime anybody that we know of. I mean I'm from America; if we started bashing people for the war crimes their governments were committing I'd have to be at the head of the line.
It's not racist to laugh at the irony.
@ryannathans @LaFinlandia not Hitler and Putin alone are evil, but all people who support them.
Take responsibility!
We should start punishing north korean escapees too then?
Classic white monkey post
I try to put myself in their situation. As much as I am against this stupid war and Putin, if I was born in a country under dictatorship, I'd probably be brainwashed or too afraid to speak my mind too.
I think this is one of the few entry points for other Russians to start a conversation and maybe question your propaganda based selfimage
The only Russian who's really earned the hatred is Putin, I'm not surprised his sycophants are feeling pressured.
Hexbear and .ml seem equally as dismayed, constantly lashing out with violent rhetoric.
Patently false. There are many, many who earned their infamy. All those involved in the kidnapping of children, the rapists, those firing on civilians, and all the leadership encouraging all these reprehensible acts to name a few.
@YeetPics @LaFinlandia Disagree totally. He's the #1 cause, yes, but he is not the only one. He could not do this without help, and he's had plenty. He's enlisted people from Bulgaria, Turkey, and other countries who specialize in atrocities and torture. He's allowed violent criminals out of prisons to go to war. He has help. They need to pay for their crimes, too. #WarCrimes #PutinWarCriminal #RussiaUkraineWar #RussianInvasion
Is it equally as valid to hate Chinese people because of the atrocities that occurred under Xi?
Something tells me that hating an ethnic group because their government leadership feeds them half truths is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Then again half the political discussions I've seen on Lemmy end with calling to nuke entire hemispheres of the planet, maybe this level of nuance doesn't fit here lmao.
That's like saying only Hitler was bad in Nazi Germany. And before the whole "NoT EvErY RuSsIaN" argument comes up: silence is compliance! The Russians who are truly against what their country is doing already left in 2022, before the mobilization. Everyone else who is not actively fighting their regime is complicit.
There's a middle point between "the dictator is the only bad guy" and "literally every person on a country the size of a continent is the bad guy"
Yes, see my last sentence.
You can't expect every single person that didn't left Russia to want ukrainians to be murdered and tortured. People there are poor, their entire life is there, their country makes everything to prevent them from escaping and other countries are wary in their regard. You can't make it that simple
Yes, I very much can, because I know what it means if we are compliant with genocidal war mongering terror regimes and where that leads to.
being physically or economically unable to leave a country does not equal supporting putins russia, and how do all the minorities in russia that want their own independence tie into this? should they also leave what they see as a different country because on paper its part of russia? should all the remaining ukrainians leave ukraine were it to be fully occupied and used as a base to attack another country? you act as if russia isnt a truly large country that can be generalized to such extreme extents while theres enormous differences and disagreements within european russia alone
putins russia is a genocidal regime and no1 disagrees with that, but problems of raging alcholism and learned hopelessness among the regular people aside it is not as simple a matter as you boil it down to. everyone have their own fights and many people simply do not have the courage or ability to essentially fight a country but that does not make them worse than others
