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~~Ukraine~~ United States is going to lose if Congress doesn't send more aid
The fact that everyone understands that the war in Ukraine is based on American backing means that it's a proxy war between the US and Russia.
$773 billion dollars last year spent on fighting "proxy" wars around the world (and if you count the spying, domestically).
The only one that America has actual moral footing to get behind is the only one we are pulling punches on.
The free world loses when Russia wins.
It's pretty much an invitation to China to do the same in Taiwan and an invitation for Russia to start more wars in eastern Europe.....
Helping Ukraine costs money. Not helping Ukraine costs even more.
wait, you are not being ironical?
how the fuck do you manage to claim that the west is the free world™ while it is the empire to blame for the largest amount of worldwide suffering in the second half of the twentieth century? It is responsible for countless invasions, sanction regimes and assassinations with the goal of subjugating foreign nations, as well as courting nazis post ww2, like for example people like klaus barbie or wernher von braun, as well as the entire early government of the frg.
your fantasizing about a supposed military threat from the prc to taiwan and from russia to the rest of europe is nothing but pure projection, since you westoids apparently cant imagine someone acting from a different motivation than your own. the prc has time and time again stated that it prefers a peaceful resolution to the taiwan conflict and the province has never officially declared any grade of independence from the mainland, simply being under a different government, the roc.
russia on the other hand has absolutely no reason to start any military conflicts in western europe, something you would know, if you would even try to understand the lead up to the current situation.
your last sentence honestly just sounds like a thinly veiled blood for the blood god.
FWIW, there are plenty of politicians in Europe who disagree with you, it's not an American take, here's a quote from Lithuania's PM:
"the outcome of this fight in Ukraine is crucial for Europe."
"If Putin is not stopped in Ukraine, then whatever happens next is Europe's problem at large," she said. https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-not-stopped-in-ukraine-all-europe-problem-lithuania-pm-2024-3?op=1
lithuania, like all the baltic states, is a us puppet state. also they are so obviously fascist that they even erect monuments to literal nazis.
Does the free world also include places America has invaded or bombed?
The free world 😂 Okay boomer 🇺🇸 🦅
Yes, no shit. That was the outlook from day 1.
The Russian Army is largely represented as a bunch of baffoons in the Western media, but it's still one of the 3 largest armies in the world. Ukraine cannot hold their lines indefinitely, the only way to "win" against an opponent that has multiple times your materiel available is guerilla.
People in this thread clearly don't understand what the implications are. There is a very clear danger of war on the European continent that will involve NATO and by proxy the US. Aid for Ukraine is the absolute cheapest option. Europe is not going to just let Ukraine fall and will ramp up their involvement. We already have France willing to send troops.
the US is already involved by proxy
Republicans are thrilled
It is a bad idea to trust and rely on Ameeica. Some Afgans learned this lesson in 2021, the same is happening to Ukraine now.
Many such cases!
Gaddafi's is just sad. Such a terrible decision to give up their nuclear deterrence and trust western governments.
Nukes are why the DPRK hasn't been invaded again, and why it hasn't ended up Libya is now.
Ukraine gave up their nukes in exchange for peace with Russia, then got invaded by Russia.
Ukraine was very much at peace with Russia as it always had been before the 2014 coup and the resulting fascist gov that didn't care about such agreements.
The fascist government is the one invading Ukraine, my guy.
How many times are we going to go over this, my guy?
they weren't ukrainian nukes. they were soviet nukes and ukraine didn't have the money or expertise to take care of them.
I wouldn’t put it that way exactly. Ukraine was a constituent part of the USSR, and eastern Ukraine was a major industrial hub. I don’t know the history of it, but perhaps giving the nukes to Russia was part of the deal made in the Post-Soviet transition in Ukraine.
Ukraine is going to lose with aid, all giving them more money does is allow them to not negotiate for longer.
If you think Ukraine won't muster a guerilla resistance fierce enough to make France blush you haven't been paying attention.
Found the vatnik.
Sorry if you cant handle the truth, its just the objective reality of the facts.
No, it's your opinion.
Its the opinion of everyone that has any level of information of the situation and is honest.
Really depends on what you mean by loose, and what constitutes a win for Russia.
Russia's original objective was to waltz to Kyiv and kick down a rotten door, expecting the house to follow. Well that didn't work out, so what's the new objective?
Is a win occupying all of Ukraine, just the peninsula, or just realizing the new territory in donbos? If you are talking about the peninsula or the breakaway territory, yea they could probably get away with that pretty easily, but that's pretty much where we started. But, I would hesitate calling it a win to waste generations worth of military equipment and men to maintain the status quo.
If you are talking about permanently occupying the entirety of the country...... I'm not really sure if that's even an obtainable goal? They are still fighting for every kilometer in eastern Ukraine, and defences will only get tougher as you head west. Plus, they won't want to utilize the type of bombardments they use to avoid urban combat in the larger eastern cities. At least not if they are the ones who are expecting to pay the bills when this is all over.
This whole venture is only profitable if they actually get to fully integrate Ukrainians into the Russian federation, and with how bloody this war has been, that means a significant occupation force, likely over half a million soldiers.
Definately NOT proxy cannon fodder
Countries will get fed up of sending aid to Ukraine long before Russia decides to return its annexed territories. We're already seeing signs of that.
If NATO isn't willing to go in and force the Russians out themselves, I fail to see how this war is anything but a net gain for Russia. They will just sit back and let their "new territories" become more and more Russified.
To me, the aid is just a delaying tactic to allow Ukraine to continue fighting until the west can figure out a way to accept that Ukraine has lost its territories without losing face.
It's a shit show, but I don't share the optimism that a lot of people have for a Ukrainian victory. It's like a game of chess, and it's currently Ukraine/NATOs turn, because the Russians are already dug in.