this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2023
30 points (100.0% liked)
Politics
10180 readers
18 users here now
In-depth political discussion from around the world; if it's a political happening, you can post it here.
Guidelines for submissions:
- Where possible, post the original source of information.
- If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
- Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
- Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
- Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
- Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
Subcommunities on Beehaw:
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
if you change the hypothetical to "Delhi rebels tomorrow against BJP rule and Narendra Modi says he's going to nuke Delhi in response" i don't think the arithmetic changes just because now the people are from the same country and that country is "free to accept that risk for itself" of what such an action will do. the usage is bad full stop; the consequences are avoidable through not using them; there are less morally dubious alternatives available which will have the same net outcome. these are valid arguments with or without borders being considered.
And if you change it to "Delhi rebels threaten to detonate nuke in Delhi, Modi responds by dropping cluster munitions on rebels" then it's not so clear any more.
Ukrainian civilians are at risk no matter what happens. The ones who are ultimately responsible for deciding the fate of Ukrainians are Ukrainians themselves.
You may think you see a better option, but they don't have to agree with you.
nobody is saying they do; they will do as they will. but what they do isn't correct; it isn't correct because they do it and are the good guys; and people can be correct to oppose them for doing bad things―which i think this is―because doing a bad thing isn't mutually exclusive of being on the good side.
In this situation don't think it makes sense to oppose cluster munitions simply on principle.
I think it would be correct to oppose them only if using cluster bombs would cause more harm to Ukrainian civilians than the alternatives. I assume Ukrainian leaders would use similar criteria.
And since Ukrainians are actually at the front lines, they are the best informed and will suffer the most from an error of judgment. Under those circumstances, I am comfortable with trusting them to make the best decision either way.