It's not an argument. It was a consideration that should be weighed if you're being consistent. Your response is not accurate though. You're referring to most farmed animals. Bees do not require this and is what the post is about. There are many animal products that do less harm than plant products. Farming plants requires large areas of land to be cleared for farming and replaced with what is likely not a native species. This can't be good for native animals. If you're comparing the harm done by almonds and honey, honey is almost certainly better for harm reduction, yet it's an animal product, not a plant product.

Not with bees not.

Eating plant based sugar will kill and harm more animals that bee produced sugar.

Or do you think that agricultural process does not kill bugs?

I would argue that eating honey instead of plant based sugar would be more vegan.

In general drawing the line of veganism with bugs is... Complicated. As you really cannot have agriculture without killing bugs.

You need pesticides, or some form of plage control. You need to harvest plants that surely will have animals in them. And you'll need to clean the vegetables of bugs before consumption.

Eating animals and their secretions requires harming significantly more plants than eating the plants directly because animals need to be fed too,

and they are mostly fed parts of plants that people can't or won't eat. the same field that grows soybeans for human consumption is growing animal feed, it's just different parts of the plant.

I've come to understand that the healthiest people aren't vegans.

It's just that despite often lacking certain nutrients, vegan diets tend to enforce being at least kind of healthy unless you go ridiculously overboard on fruit or vegan junkfood.

But eating beef/honey/eggs being "self-harming"? Fuck you very much.

I am completely disinterested in your arguments, and will continue buying ridiculously good foods from abusive sources. Sources that I'd prefer to regulate in terms of animal rights, but every time that comes up, you people divert the conversation to "if you're not gonna be vegan you're evil either way so it doesn't matter" and everyone tunes out.

I think they're making a comment on the way vegans communicate their worldview to others, not necessarily a fixation on honey.

There's also an argument that diet should contribute to thriving, not simply existing in the most convenient way to balance bodyweight.

If your goal is to build strength and muscle, an all vegan diet will be less effective than supplementing a similar diet with animal proteins. Every few years, a top contact sport athlete will give a full vegan diet a go, but they invariably fall back on animal protein because they can't build the mass required.

Ultimately, it's all individual choice and body chemistry.