Goldfishlaser

joined 1 year ago
[–] Goldfishlaser@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Personally, people with backyard chickens getting offended at vegan speech isn't something I'd concern myself with as a mod.

The above statement that I made was specifically in response to someone asking why some vegans use language like Holocaust and slavery and motivations for doing so.

This isn't the place to argue about whether its ok to have a backyard chicken, though, because the thread topic is what speech should be regulated. We can go over to debate a vegan on that if you want.

You suggest that people offending other people should be regulated and thats a different philosophy than I have about moderation. You suggest only large scale agro can be criticized. I think its overly censorious and that you will create a blindspot for this community by preventing ideas you agree with from getting challenged. But the joy of a federated platform is that people can choose where they associate and escape such echochambers whenever they want. You've at least been transparent with us. These shall be my concluding thoughts on the matter.

 

Love to see it

[–] Goldfishlaser@slrpnk.net 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

This thread is just becoming people arguing about what type of vegan speech is effective and failing to understand the concept of the seriousness with which vegans promote and believe in animal rights. To vegans, animals are individuals and their sentience is respected and taken very seriously.

I can't speak to "off topic" or "bundled insults" but if something is "off topic" or "bundled with insults" then it can be moderated accordingly.

A lot of vegans who have had enslaved ancestors are still ok with the analogy and a lot of vegans who ancestors in the holocaust are still ok with the holocaust analogy. Since there is a wide spread of people with this very common opinion, if you censor it, you're ok censoring vegan speech which is hostile to vegans.

I've already said - people compare animal agriculture to slavery because we captivate, force impregnate, mutilate, steal their children, and economically exploit animals. We violate their rights for mere taste pleasure because today, in most parts of the world, it isn't required to do this to them.

People compare it to the holocaust because every year billions are killed, in gas chambers and in abattoirs. They're led to their deaths packed on top of each other in trucks, breaking their legs on floors of shit, dehydrated, and terrified.

When people say this, it's not TRYING to get an emotional response, this is just WHAT happens and WHAT you contribute to if you consume animal products. And some people really wish you'd stop and sometimes emotions get in the way and ok, if someone crosses a line, moderate that shit.

It looks like what's really going to happen here is that because vegans are a minority, even here, the sensibilities of people who get offended by the animal rights point of view is going to blind them to the fact that they're being incredibly censorious. Enjoy your echo chamber if you want, I guess. Disappointing.

[–] Goldfishlaser@slrpnk.net 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

Context matters here when we're talking about what speech you're going to outlaw on this platform. You can have whatever opinion you want on whether its ok to exploit a backyard chicken but if you ban someone for this, that's quite censorious. Why don't you just say to them what you said here and let the people suss it out.

[–] Goldfishlaser@slrpnk.net 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

Forbidding the comparison of animal captivity, forced reproduction and child stealing, and economic exploitation to slavery would be a clear example of indulging a censorious impulse.

I rarely use this comparison personally because it's subject to this kind of confusion (thinking comparison to human slavery is equating to human slavery). Nevertheless it's my personal opinion that when you account for the massive scale of the suffering, billions of animals yearly, a comparison of severity can still be drawn.

[–] Goldfishlaser@slrpnk.net 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Tofu does has a fairly complete amino acid profile, which is why it combines well with many vegetable proteins. It's only a little short on methionine.

Seeds, nuts, spinach, sweet potato, corn, asparagus, broccoli, chard... And more are all pretty decent sources of methionine.

You may find this article my friend wrote interesting -https://green.michaelaltfield.net/2014/10/20/complete-protein-ratios/

I think many people like to toast the bread but you don't have to.

[–] Goldfishlaser@slrpnk.net 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (15 children)

So it seems you're automatically defensive about wanting to moderate vegan speech (preempting with "don't feel personally attacked) and deep down I think you know why.

I understand you're just trying to make a space where everyone feels welcome. But harrassment policy and other conduct policy should cover people getting out of bounds and requires no vegan specific clause. Making a vegan specific clause is a little hostile.

Unless you are truly aiming to ban people for having the opinion that it's not ok to not be vegan. That would be tone policey and censorious, in my opinion. If a vegan is actually harassing someone that calls for moderation, but its already a rule to refrain from harassing. If you want to make a rule on harassment and include several examples, and one of them is a vegan example, that would be fine.

It just reminds me of other contentious issues like racial justice or gender issues. Sometimes people didn't like getting called racist, but do you censor a racial minority because their message is intense and makes someone a little uncomfortable? People have the right to decline interactions that arent going well but they shouldnt expect to always be perfectly comfortable when writing in the public square.

[–] Goldfishlaser@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 year ago

Even though I'm on Facebook, I use it rarely, and I wasn't even in this particular subgroup where he posted it until he shared the update with me directly 😂. So I totally get ya.

[–] Goldfishlaser@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Totally understandable.

Btw in reaponse to your other question about current OSE activities, the team has been heads down building the Seed Eco Home 4. Heres an image from their recent FB post.

The Seed Eco Home project is the one I wanted to post about next

screenshot  of fb post showing solar panel work on seed eco 4

[–] Goldfishlaser@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

If it isn't too much trouble, can you tell me the pages with the broken links?

[–] Goldfishlaser@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

Hello! Great to have you here, sorry for the delay in responding :D

We can talk about:

  • Open Hardware Projects (particularly if related to ecological mindset ;))
  • Open Software Projects (also particularly if related to ecological mindset)
  • How to encourage people to participate in Open Hardware and Open Software Development
  • Discussions on starting Open Enterprises and Mass Collaboration Efforts
  • Discussions on what it's like volunteering or working with OSE
  • Attempts to replicate or contribute to Global Village Construction Set or Eco Homes and related projects
  • Topics related to OSE Guiding Philosophies (Integrated Human, Abundance Economy): https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Category:Guiding_philosophies

Personally, I'm going to try to start posting helpful resources starting with the more developed projects and proceeding to the less developed projects. I know that the way the wiki is, that it can be overwhelming for new people, even though it's really an amazing resource. I hope to make it less intimidating by helping people understand how to navigate the project.

But certainly by no means must all posts be absolutely directly/officially related to OSE.

[–] Goldfishlaser@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Exciting that it passed! Hope to see one that broadens to farm equipment, cars, consoles, and medical devices....

TIL Colorado's right to repair farm equipment bill (hb23-1011) passed in April.

 

It's important to oppose the EATS (Ending Agricultural Trade Suppression) act.

From an email I received about this from Animal Equality:

"Last month, the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the strongest farm animal protection law in the country, California’s Proposition 12, which bans the sale of products that come from animals trapped in unthinkably small crates. Also in recent years, we've banned the sale of eggs from caged hens in nine states.

These laws have impacted the lives of millions upon millions of animals across the country. But now, agricultural industry groups are trying to undo our progress by introducing legislation in the U.S. Congress that would undo years of hard work and send millions of farmed animals back into tiny cages. We can't let this happen.

The "Ending Agricultural Trade Suppression (EATS) Act" is been designed to wipe out all the state laws we've worked so hard to pass. If successful, the EATS Act could also destroy hundreds of additional state laws protecting animals, such as statutes safeguarding against the abuse of dogs in puppy mills, the killing of animals for the wildlife trade, and painful experiments inflicted on animals for cosmetic testing.

The EATS Act could even strike down state laws on a vast range of other concerns, including pesticide use, protection against lead poisoning, toxic chemicals in baby food containers, and child labor. Needless to say, this legislation is extremely dangerous!"

 

Barnivore is a directory where you can easily search for vegan wine, beer, liquor and more.

From the site: "Brewmasters, winemakers, and distillers may include animal ingredients in their products directly, or they might use them in the processing and filtration.

When making the product, dairy, honey, and other things are ingredients in the final recipe.

When filtering the drinks prior to bottling, companies can use things like isinglass (from fish bladder,) gelatin, egg whites, and sea shells, among other things. These products grab onto the impurities and make it easier to catch them in the filters, though there are many animal-free alternatives in use."

Always remember that if you drink, drink responsibly 🍻

 

In this video, Mic the Vegan tells us about a novel technology creating a fat that is melty, lardy, and structurally similar to animal fat.

https://www.lypid.co/news

 

Sharing this video because Jake Tran's video contained many common objections that people raise against using plant milks. Lifting Vegan Logic breaks down the reasons why these objections are fallacious.

Lifting Vegan Logic is a great channel that uses sarcasm and parody to discuss vegan ideas.

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