this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2023
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[–] Haus@kbin.social 87 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Basing your opinions on socialism on how Russia implemented it makes about as much sense as basing an opinion on Democracy on how Putin has implemented it.

[–] SouthEndSunset@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

This entire thread is based on this. If comments are truthful.

[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 64 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Considering that the USSR only claimed to be socialist and used propaganda (in accord with the US) to convince the people that state control is the same as worker's control over the means of production (it isn't), the girl is probably correct.

[–] dansity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sir we are not doing reasons here, this is a meme sub.

[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 12 points 1 year ago

Memes can still be incoherent.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 64 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

14 year old white girl

Bravo they managed to also cram ageism and misogyny in the old "champagne socialism" meme. All in the single sentence.

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[–] patomaloqueiro@lemmy.ml 53 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is more accurate: Online discussion about capitalism

People living in a third world capitalist country

14-year-old white boy living in a Western country: I know more than you

[–] dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This meme doesn’t work, because in the scene the image comes from, we have every reason to believe Ron Swanson actually does know more than the employee at the hardware store.

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[–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

... apart from that it's also most unlikely it's 14 year old girls who are the people writing this in online discussions.

[–] Uniquitous@lemmy.one 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

LOL, I knew this sub was digging for old memes but bringing back actual red-baiting? chef's kiss

[–] istdaslol@feddit.de 10 points 1 year ago

We need to start at 0 before we can return to a strong radical left community

[–] Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

※The person who lived in the USSR was born in December of 1991

[–] Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A rambleI'm replying to my own comment to add: I'm barely even joking about this. Which is to say, actually having personal experience of living in a country can be very useful in discussions of it, but we also need to be aware of the limitations of lived experience.

For instance, I live in Norway, and I've met people here who didn't know that they had suffrage in local elections, and who didn't know the difference between national and local elections. I've met autistic people who know nothing about local autistic advocacy, trans people who know nothing about local trans advocacy, and I've met more people here who sincerely believe in "plandemic" conspiracy theories than who are even remotely aware of what Norwegian state-owned corporations have done in the global south. These people will go on and on about how "Americans are all idiots!" while simultaneously demonstrating a complete obliviousness to the actual political issues in their own backyards.

So sometimes people just don't know what they're talking about, simple as that. Lived experience should be respected, obviously, but it is not absolute nor immune from criticism. There are plenty of things that I've learned about the country where I live from people who have never set a foot in it — even things that feel so basic that I'm really embarrassed to admit that I didn't know them.

And we need to be particularly aware of this effect with regard to those who were children and adolescents in the USSR. Those who turned 18 when the USSR dissolved would be 50 years old now. Those who turned 18 when Stalin died would be 88 years old now. This obviously doesn't mean that you'll have no opportunities to chat with people who lived a significant portion of their adult lives in the USSR, I have done this myself... And that guy basically said that living in the USSR was the time of his life. I suspect that this might've had something to do with how he was a popular musician in his home republic, and how he was a comparatively young adult in the 1980s. Nevertheless, it was interesting to learn how one of his songs was actually a load of anti-evolutionist nonsense, which to me indicated that Soviet censorship was perhaps not as strict as a lot of people say it was... And again, seeing a grainy video cassette rip of this guy on Sukhumi's Red Bridge pointing to a giant monkey plush like a big ol' doofus, shows how not everybody in the USSR was the sharpest tool in the shed (sorry, Anzor!)

So if you find some 30-to-50-something year old who says that thon actually lived in the USSR and is therefore qualified to speak about it... Asking for thons lived experiences of the USSR is like asking a zoomer today for sy lived experiences of Dubya and Obama. Not to say that a child's perspective is worthless, just that it will be a child's perspective. Meanwhile, ask a 60-or-70-something year old, and chances are pretty good that you'll get nostalgia goggles of young adulthood. Ask an 80+ year old, and... Where the hell are you gonna find one of those? Especially if you can't speak Russian, your access to authentic Soviet perspectives is going to be severely limited.

On the other hand, if you ask someone who left the USSR for political reasons for thons experiences, then that's like asking someone who left the USA for political reasons for thons experiences: you're gonna hear an overtly negative perspective, and maybe some of that perspective will be useful, but that perspective is also not going to be representative of the majority experience, and it could've even been twisted by outside factors (obviously praising your new country is gonna increase your mobility in your new country!). Paul Robeson said of the USSR that being in that country was "the first time [he] felt like a human being".

So, the best way to be educated about the USSR is through scholarly analysis, which takes into account the lived experiences of a broad range of people as they recounted their lives at the time, and which also considers the factors that the individuals might not have been aware of. We should always be open to hearing people out, obviously, but we also always need to remember that nobody has all the answers — and so sometimes the 14 year old white Yankee really does know her shit better than the guy who actually lived in the country.

[–] db2@sopuli.xyz 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's casual racism. If you can switch the color to a different one and it sounds racist then it's was before also.

Edit: looks like I triggered some racists, how shocking.

[–] Album@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago

I know it's a meme but if your points are this reductive you might not be making an intelligent or rational argument.

[–] ZILtoid1991@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Personally I find it going this way:

  • some person, who at least knows what socialism is, even if they're not the most well-read in the subject,
  • some way better read one, but thinks state control of enterprises suffice and trusts the state way too much as long as it has hammers and sickles,
  • some capitalism fan, who thinks socialism is evil, and that constructon company CEOs are workers, but underpaid office workers are "elites".

Rarely you get a very well read one, who understands their stuff, or the old Soviet bloc ex-communist, who switched because the local far-right party started to be very concerned about "work morals", and also think the construction company CEO is a worker and "against the elite".

[–] TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

The problem is the way that most of those communism perfect people inform themselves. They usually know a lot of stuff about a certain topic where they can argue anyone to deth who doesn't know as much about a topic. And because they know that much more than the other person they can use wrong statements that sound right in the mass of correct information. Then you get people who know everything about Kuba and are 100% sure it's a democracy.

[–] noodle@feddit.uk 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

On Lemmy it is more like 40 something year old neckbeards that haven't seen the light of day in 2 decades. They claim to struggle to make friends at parties but could easily run a country.

[–] empireOfLove@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago

Heeeeere comes the hexbear brigade!

[–] Vitaly@feddit.uk 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] TheFriendlyDickhead@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago

Communism as a concept is a brilliant thing. The problem is that in the past it never worked the way it was intended, but managed to cause a lot of harm.

The problem is that the 14 year old white girl here still thinks with all her heart that countries like China are communist and in generall the perfect place to be, which is just not true.

[–] Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

OP really be asking why the meme is being anti-white racist 💀

[–] Titou@feddit.de 1 points 8 months ago

Never did any research, did you ?