this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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[–] Noughmad@programming.dev 75 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, you can call yourself a leftist all you want, but when 90% of your posts is calling Biden and Zelensky Nazis but you never criticize Putin or Trump, I get certain doubts.

[–] SigloPseudoMundo@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You forgot the genocide denial as well. I don't understand why they worship Russia like the ussr is still around.

[–] Cagi@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago

Right? They react with appropriate frustration when someone denies the Holocaust happened, but then deny Holodomor with the exact same rhetoric as the Holocaust deniers.

Anarchists didn't like the fucking USSR either.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 63 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (18 children)

What's the difference between a fascist and an "anarchist" who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

There's no practical difference, just window dressing. They both cheer on oppression and pain for those suffering under Republicans.

And don't even get me started on communists. Left and right authoritarians, I've gotten death threats from both of them. Whether it's some leftist telling me I would "get the wall" when the Revolution comes or some fucking Republican telling me that the US was only for Christians and that they'll go after "traitors" soon, you get to the same fucking place at the end of the day. The only real difference is that there's far more Republicans, and they're far more organized than left authoritarians.

[–] DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube 44 points 1 year ago (2 children)

bOtH sIdEs

This is why libs get clowned on so hard. You claim to support "the only viable left leaning political party", and yet you're kneecapping large swaths of people on the ground engaging in direct action advancing left leaning values. Remember, segregation wasn't ended because black people voted, blood was spilt in the streets. Same with the LGBT community, see the stonewall uprising, aka, the first pride parade.

I don't care how you vote, but if you can't see the difference between an anarchist engaging in direct action against an oppressive state and fascists doing hate crimes; well, I'd say it's time to get off your high horse and do a little introspection.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

yet you're kneecapping large swaths of people on the ground engaging in direct action advancing left leaning values

Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power. It doesn't matter how many lit memes anarchists and communists share on social media and how much they horn on about "direct action," this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.

You want me to do some introspection? I did. I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.

[–] DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Direct action is meaningless if you're hostile to building a coalition broad enough to actually gain any significant political power.

Spoken like someone who's never done organizing, participated in protests or any other direct action. You're a keyboard warrior who's probably never even interacted with a socialist IRL.

this is a democracy and without votes going to candidates who can win, it is ultimately meaningless.

Not a democracy and also I already gave 2 examples showing the contrary.

I remember being young and convinced socialism was the way forward. Then I grew the fuck up and did some introspection.

No need to be a condescending dick. I'm also guessing I'm older than you, not that it's relevant.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I've participated in dozens of protests. Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.

No need to be a condescending dick.

If you don't want someone to take offense at what you write, don't smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.

[–] DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube 18 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Protests with political organization can lead to change. Protests without political organization are just yelling at a wall.

Right... I'm not sure why you think I'm not in favor of organized resistance.

If you don't want someone to take offense at what you write, don't smugly tell them to learn introspection. Act like an arrogant dick, get treated like an arrogant dick.

You were doing a "both sides" between anarchists and fascists, eerily similar to Trump, while claiming to be "left leaning". I think my response was warranted, if not understated. But frankly, that's plain ignorant.

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[–] socsa@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

This is delusional. Direct action absolutely has its place, but all the things you mentioned were ultimately won at the ballot box. As it should be. Don't let a childish revolution fetish blind you to what constitutes a viable framework for lasting progress.

Edit - "Has." As in he has a ball. Or she has a textbook.

[–] DrJenkem@lemmy.blugatch.tube 16 points 1 year ago (7 children)

It's funny how libs think they can tell me when direct action is necessary, and it's always in the past tense, never in the present.

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[–] Veraxus@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (19 children)

Left is literally the opposite of authoritarian. You seem to be conflating a whole lot of ideas and terminology here. You sound like an ideological leftist who has been confused by the right's deliberate language-muddying.

Left is egalitarian. That takes many different forms: socialism, communism, direct democracy, anarchism, etc.
Right is authoritarian. That also takes many different forms: monarchy, feudalism, oligarchy, corporatism, etc.

Authoritarianism (or vertical/hierarchical power structure) is THE defining characteristic of the right. "Auth-left" is Doublethink; an oxymoron meant to distract from the fact that wealth and power are one and the same.

[–] CheezyWeezle@lemm.ee 19 points 1 year ago (7 children)

State-imposed collectivism is left-leaning authoritarianism. It is the authoritarian and non-voluntary implementation of leftist economic policy. It is an extremely simple concept that I cant fathom how you aren't able to grasp.

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[–] tron@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Authoritarianism (or vertical/hierarchical power structure) is THE defining characteristic of the right. “Auth-left” is Doublethink; an oxymoron meant to distract from the fact that wealth and power are one and the same.

This is so incredibly naive. Stalin? Mao? Evil authoritarianism comes in all flavors left and right. If you truly believe leftists aren't capable of evil you need to study more history.

[–] Veraxus@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

So close. You are soooo close to getting it. Just a little further...

[–] socsa@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

MLs and having a cringeworthy enlightenment complex - name a more iconic duo.

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[–] Addfwyn@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

I might be misunderstanding you, so I apologize if that is the case, but if you are referring to the Democrats they are far from left leaning. They aren't even center leaning.

You can't even say they have a better track record than the Republicans. They bomb countries as much (or in recent years even more) than the Republicans. They advocate for wars. They fund ICE even more than the Republicans. They stand up just as much for reproductive rights (read: not at all). They just do all of it while waving a rainbow flag.

I really hope you meant the Greens or the CPUSA; which have their own issues but are certainly more left than either the Democrats or Republicans.

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[–] epicspongee@midwest.social 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

What’s the difference between a fascist and an “anarchist” who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

Sorry which party is this? Dems are not even a remotely left-leaning party. Joe Biden literally criminalized the rail workers using their legal right to strike.

This is also like a children's picture book-level of understanding of fascism. As if the Dems' policy of 4 more years of the status quo could prevent fascism at all. That has literally never worked as a way to combat fascism.

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[–] Rozauhtuno@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This comment is giving me so much whiplash.

I was sure it was gonna be ironic when they started comparing anarchists to fascists, but fun fact: no, they actually mean it. Anarchists are fascists, everyone. You've heard it here first!

I swear, if there's something liberals hate more than what's on their right, it's what's on their left.

[–] Athena5898@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Don't lump anarchists with way too online MLs.

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[–] timicin@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What’s the difference between a fascist and an “anarchist” who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?

what's the difference between a cuckold and someone who votes for racist, homophobic, classicist establishment politicians no matter what; there is no difference.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago

Whatever lies you have to tell to make sure America gets worse, I guess. No honest, thinking human being could think there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans. That's how we all know people like you are either useful idiots or just cosplaying Republicans.

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[–] ivereadalltheory 47 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Tankies when you don't want your country to fall into fascism.

[–] gun@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just vote for the lesser of two fascisms

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[–] cyclohexane@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Democratic party is already a sympathizer of fascism.

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[–] ox0r@jlai.lu 14 points 1 year ago

For the majority of the world, the usa is alrwas inflicting fascism on them all the fucking time. Hell even people inside the usa live under a fascist state, especially minorities/poc

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[–] BigNote@lemm.ee 47 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, it's so strange that people confuse you with a Kremlin bot when you repeatedly spew the same fucking bullshit talking points as the bots themselves.

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[–] Echo71Niner@kbin.social 42 points 1 year ago

No one wants to talk about the thousands of extra bots that reddit released during the blackout and afterwards to keep up with the illusion. A whole lot of sub users on reddit are engaging with bots. In fact, some gullible people think r/place is run by users, and not the thousands of bots run by different subs, as well as reddit admins.

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] explodicle@local106.com 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Do you think pro-Trump Russian bots are building up anarchist/communist post histories to throw you off? Or that anarchists/communists are de facto Trump supporters by not voting blue no matter who?

[–] FaeDrifter@midwest.social 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (15 children)

I don't go through people's comment histories to try to validate them.

And there's a shocking overlap in vernacular and memes between tankies and alt-right. Obviously they're diametrically opposed on almost all issues. BUT neither really believe in good faith discussion, it's mostly trolling and "dunking". Mix in sarcasm that's not obvious to an outsider, and the jokes are hard to tell apart from misinformation or "muddying the water".

It's way more present since Hexbear federated in, every first impression is that it's an alt-right troll farm. After some interaction it gets clear quickly that it isn't.

Just expect us normies to have that first impression.

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[–] n3m37h@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Anarchy and Communism are not the fucking same, what a retarded meme

To anyone offended, Go watch "The Ringer"

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[–] Gnubyte@lemdit.com 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Honestly it's exhausting to the whole lemmy experience that every time something gets even slightly political, there's an extreme communist in the comments pushing their agenda.

I can literally say "hey man they all suck yo fuck politics am I right?" And in comes a guy who tells me I'm a Republican or Democrat or fuck America, whatever. I can even agree that the news is biased in America, and I'll still get the same response.

It makes conversations for the average consumer on the platform unproductive at best, unsettling in its worst form.

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[–] o_0@slrpnk.net 15 points 1 year ago

lmao, i've been getting that constantly

[–] areyouevenreal@lemmy.antemeridiem.xyz 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What exactly is a liberal in this context? Is a social democrat a liberal? What about Jeremy Corbyn or Bernie Sanders?

Why are people hating on "liberals" more than conservatives?

[–] Count0@lemmy.villa-straylight.social 15 points 1 year ago (7 children)

This is why. Well, this is one of the reasons.

First, we have extremely few liberals in America. The Democratic party is mostly made up of people that would be best described as center-right anywhere else in the world. They don't actually want to fight to roll back changes that Republicans make, and actually try to internally sabotage the few members that do want to undo changes the republicans make. They actively prevent change, and then active work against those who do want change all while professing to want change and to do their best to fight for it. But they're lying, and people are catching on. People are even starting to realize that the whole "We'd do stuff for you if it wasn't for that bad bad manchin, and Sinema" thing is as much of a lie, too.

The second reason that is more for the communists is something along the lines of the old joke "Scratch a liberal, and a fascist bleeds" Communists don't like liberals (And the use of the word liberal is pretty different from the usage in the first case) because they view them as people that profess to want these better for others, until it requires any, even minor, amounts of sacrifice from the liberal. The whole Moderate Rebels thing in Syria? It was always a lie for one simple reason. Fighting is an extreme action. Moderates don't fight, they just don't. That's one of the reasons they're moderates. Liberals are like communists that aren't willing to fight or do what is necessary to enact change.

Two party system. This duopoly kind of politics prevents the emergence of new parties as well. The system of voting "one person" favours the two party system and even if there was a new party people are less likely to vote them cuz they think they are less likely to win.

This educational video explains better than me

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[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Bad is the enemy of good, and right-wingers are bad.

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[–] Nerorero@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I mean, a lot of "leftists" are pro Russia...

[–] awwwyissss@lemm.ee 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Pro-Soviet (no longer exist) ≠ pro modern Russia

Against continued war in Ukraine ≠ pro Russia

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[–] timicin@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

i've lost track of the number of times this has happened to me since joining the fediverse and part of me wishes i had stayed on reddit to remain ignorant of the of ignorant liberal masses.

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Lmao that hat reminded me of this (short) video:

Edit: Piped doesn't seem to be working? Maybe an issue with Shorts. https://youtu.be/qowJStEn534

https://piped.video/watch?v=qowJStEn534

Also check out his other shorts, he never misses, legitimately great content.

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[–] Potato_in_my_anus@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

Watching communists/socialists and conservatives/fascists arguing about whose ideology is better

Grabs popcorn..

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