The far anything can go screw itself, but we definitely need to hold on to physical currency.
this post was submitted on 07 Aug 2023
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Cash should never be got rid of entirely, but surely it should be up to the business if they want to take cash and then the free market decides if that decision costs them customers or not?
Citizens should have right to privacy. Cash, monero etc are important.
Then this people that seek privacy can go and shop somewhere that does take cash to maintain it, but if the market shows that they're not the majority they can't expect every shop to cater to them. It's like me expecting all restaurants to go fully veggie because I personally don't eat meat.
More like having a veggie option at every restaurant.
Which most of them do as the market has shown it's worth it. Does the market show enough people want to keep paying cash because it seems to just be nutty conspiracy theorists on twitter moaning about it.
Must be nice living in such a huge city that there are multiple stores for everything. Can't even order online instead, since those shops also don't take cash (obviously).
To be fair, I order most products online anyway and there's a big supermarket round the corner for food. When I do venture into London it's great how much faster it is to use the trains, get a pint, pay for food, etc just tapping my phone on everything.
You never buy anything except food and drink?
No, as I said I buy most other stuff, bar clothing, online anyway, or theyre digital products to begin with like games.
This card-only thing is already happening in some places and it's frustrating. For one, you tend to find out after you're done shopping or while your order is already being prepared, so you're being put on the spot. For two, for the store, it makes sense to go cash-free as long as they lose fewer customer payments than they save on cash-handling β but for those few customers who are caught by this, and who may be unbanked or have an incompatible card or high card fees or are just privacy-minded, it becomes harder/impossible to buy stuff at all.
If you're unbanked, that is a you problem. Not a problem that society has to succumb to.
I want to live in a country that isn't 50 years behind every other just because some backwards hillbilly decides that "the banks shan't know what i spend my paycheck on".
If you're that concerned, stop using the Internet. Full stop.
If youβre unbanked, that is a you problem.
Refugees and poor people don't exist. I forgot. (I live near a refugee facility and bus drivers here don't accept cash anymore, while most of the ticketing machines have been removed from the bus stops ... fun. Essentially people who come here are almost forced into riding the bus without a ticket, at least a couple of times. In Germany, that is a criminal offense and can lead to extradition.)
the banks shanβt know what i spend my paycheck on
They legitimately shouldn't. And neither should my supermarket/drug store be able to collect all my receipts to find out whether I am sick or pregnant.
Poor people? Since when can a poor person not get a bank account?
And since when can a refugee not pay by card?
And neither should my supermarket/drug store be able to collect all my receipts to find out whether I am sick or pregnant.
Go complain to the taxman lol. no, complain to the cashier, that the cashier has to forget what you bought immediately after. Delusional.
Poor people? Since when can a poor person not get a bank account?
Have you considered that some people don't have their life all in order? May have a drug issue?
And since when can a refugee not pay by card?
The issue is that most arrive in the EU without an EU bank account. So, yeah, the first few weeks or months, they will not have a bank account.
Have you considered that some people donβt have their life all in order? May have a drug issue?
Yes, i have also considered that i am vegan and stores can still sell meat. Nonissue. Or do you also argue against and ID System?
The issue is that most arrive in the EU without an EU bank account.
When i go to the US i can pay with my german mastercard in every store everywhere.
This is an issue for EU countries to get over, not me.
Cash and crypto have more bad than good sides.
Have you considered that some people donβt have their life all in order? May have a drug issue?
Yes, i have also considered that i am vegan and stores can still sell meat. Nonissue.
So, you're saying it's great to be discriminated against?!
I would go about this the other way: Being vegan is a societal good (because it means you're likelier to stay healthy; it means less resource usage; yadda). Hence, society/the state should make it as easy as possible to be vegan. A few years ago, when mainstream stores were few vegan-friendly besides produce, being a vegan was a pain though. Now, however, you have non-vegans pick up oat milk at Aldi.
Enabling people to not be criminal is a societal good as well.
Or do you also argue against and ID System?
No. I see legitimate reasons for a country to know its inhabitants. I do object to the fact that I need to present my ID when it's not really necessary, like at a hotel though.
The issue is that most arrive in the EU without an EU bank account.
When i go to the US i can pay with my german mastercard in every store everywhere.
I realize you're not a refugee.
Cash and crypto have more bad than good sides.
Crypto is, by and large, bullshit. But what does it have to do with this discussion?
I get though plenty of drugs and ironicly buy them all cashless with crypto. Those people are still entitled to a basic account under a lot of countries legislation.
So, one, with most cryptocurrencies you're not anonymous and every transaction is on a blockchain. Buying drugs with those may bite you later, depending on whether you develop any kind of ambition to be someone who's interesting enough to investigate. Two, this comment is not about being entitled to a bank account but about having enough order in your life to handle opening/using an accoutlnt.
And what makes you think that the people youre arguing for, which are btw a tiny minority that is unmeasurable, are better with cash?
And what makes you think that the people youre arguing for [...] are better with cash?
Cashless systems right now are privatized systems that are set up to be more exclusionary than cash. (I admit, there are niches where they do help inclusion, such as for blind people, but still.)
And this shows in really simple examples: I can give a child cash and tell them to get ice-cream without compromising my bank account and without the child needing to know any of my secrets or needing to have a bank account. I can give a homeless person cash without telling them my name or bank account and without them needing a bank account.
If there were a state-provided privacy-first cashless system that worked for everyone age 5+ which didn't need to refinance itself on the back people going into personal debt, I'd be mostly for it. The only thing missing then would be the intuitive spending control you get from using physical money but maybe there's a solution for that.
But right now, there are few giant multinationals plus local banks who make a lot of money on the current system and they will do everything to prevent this kind of idea for obvious reasons.
which are btw a tiny minority that is unmeasurable
I am pretty sure you can find out how many people there are who are excluded by current cashless systems, if you try.
You think they can't collate your receipts just because you pay by cash I've got a bridge to sell you. Facial recognition on the tills combined with time and date of till transaction and they have all they already.
The type of argument you're making is this: "Climate change is happening anyway, let's build more coal plants!" I don't really agree with the type of argument in general.
Corporate surveillance that can be turned into surveillance for the state at a whim is destructive to democracy and makes society worse.
Also, facial recognition is much slower and much less precise and generates much more data/noise than just collecting info from a card. There are quite a few practical hurdles here.
You've never had your identity stolen or you wouldn't be saying that.
Fees are standard and handled by the retailer, not the customer, and outside of American Express, what "incompatible" cards are there? Almost every bank uses a Visa or MasterCard which are accepted pretty much everywhere worldwide. I don't know what you mean by "unbanked" as legally everyone is entitled to a basic account, at least in the UK. If you're so privately minded you won't use a card, that sees like a self induced problem with your own paranoia.
Here in Germany, a lot of retailers/restaurants either only accept or massively prefer the local Girocard system and won't accept foreign cards. E.g. a Czech colleague not so long ago failed to pay with their Czech Visa (don't nail me on the card type, may have been Mastercard but definitely was not Amex).
I mentioned in the other comment why being unbanked is an issue.
Also, let me tell, that I pay conversion fees and other random shit even in places like Denmark (which uses DKK not EUR) with my Maestro card.
Sounds like there's national issues that need to be sorted rather than contactless being the problem. I used Monzo MasterCard issued in the UK in South Africa with no issues the other year. Also as I noted, in the UK you can't be "unbanked" as such. You can lose an account with special stipulations like what happened to Farage the other week, but they all have to offer basic accounts.
What's wrong with the idea?
It's a non-issue meant to deflect from real problems. It's also summer, so there's nothing going on and the news are blowing everything out of proportion.
Analysis of the whole thing (in German):
https://www.derstandard.de/story/3000000181809/nehammer-findet-keinen-verbuendeten-fuer-bargeld-vorstoss
There is a lot going on in Austria. It's just that it is climate change related floodings, and far-right people don't like that kind of debate.
It's really disgusting how even the media covered it for only a week and then didnt mention it again. I guess the Ahrtal only became such a big thing in Germany because of the absence of warnings and resulting deaths.
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The intention.
Cash has many benefits over cards, like independence from electricity, privacy, accessibility and you donβt have to worry about wether or not a store accepts your cash (at least if you ignore currency meddling).
But the far right does not care about those things. They support the idea because of some NWO conspiracy bs and the law they would propose will probably have some specific details to reflect that, even if itβs just by ambiguity.
The ΓVP has adopted the FPΓ's (far right's) talking point but not the specific law AFAIK. Also, they would probably only pass the law with agreement from their green coalition partners. It might be possible for them to cooperate with the FPΓ in the Nationalrat to pass the FPΓ's idea of the law, but that is extremely uncommon and would be very unpopular with the Greens. This is really only an issue for the next election in about one year.
A cashless society is an obedient society. So you bet that's the future in ten years.
Not sure if smart by conservative party to take away one of the talking arguments of the far-right or a red herring to distract from actual important topics (i.e. climate change).