this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2023
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Explanations/etymology also appreciated!

For Joe Shmoe, it means a very average or below average person. It's a derivation of the practice of using "shm-" to dismiss something (eg "Practice shmactice. We're already perfect").

And "John Smith" is meant to be the most average name or person imaginable, so they have the "most common" (citation needed) first and last name as well.

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[–] Hubi@feddit.de 88 points 2 years ago (4 children)

In Germany there is "Max Mustermann", which basically translates to Max Template-man. It's the default German name used for templates of official documents like passports and such.

[–] CAPSLOCKFTW@lemmy.ml 43 points 2 years ago

Don't forget Otto Normalverbraucher. Nobody cares about Otto Normalverbraucher.

[–] Tschuuuls@feddit.de 15 points 2 years ago (2 children)

In German there are also derogatory uses for the forenames "Kevin" and "Otto" for example. Often used to depict not well educated persons that have made extremely stupid decisions/choices.

[–] ndguardian@lemmy.studio 12 points 2 years ago

As someone with a brother named Kevin, I can confirm he’s doing his part to uphold that depiction.

[–] dreadgoat@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I think this one is pretty confined to my region (southwestern USA) but we use Otto as the moniker of a generic stupid person too, but probably for a different reason: Otto is Oblivious to the Obvious

[–] ValiantDust@feddit.de 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Don't forget his wife, Erika Mustermann, geb. (née) Gabler. She's usually the one used for passports these days. I think there's a whole Mustermann family living in these templates.

[–] elvith@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Isn't it Erika Musterfrau?

[–] ValiantDust@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago

Sometimes, but I mostly see her name as Mustermann.

[–] Darukhnarn@feddit.de 8 points 2 years ago

Or for historical context: “der Deutsche Michel” - “the German Michael “

[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 73 points 2 years ago
[–] vis4valentine@lemmy.ml 47 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

In my country (Spanish speaking) we say "Fulano de tal" Fulano is kinda like a template name nobody really is named like that. "De tal" really means something like "from somewhere".

We dont out it on the graves, but we use it as slang for situations where we need to refer to someone generic like "imagine a fulano de tal doing xxxxxxxxxxx".

There are other names like Zutano, Mengano, etc.

Edit: My mom sometimes uses "Miguel Perez". Those 2 are very common first and last names.

[–] beto@lemmy.studio 21 points 2 years ago (2 children)

In Brazil (Portuguese speaking) we also use Fulano de tal. I didn't know it was used in other countries!

We also "José Ninguém" and "Maria Ninguém" to mean someone who's a nobody. It literally means Joseph/Mary (very common names in Brazil) Nobody.

[–] lalo@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 2 years ago

There's also a name that expresses the same feeling of 'Joe Schmoe' in pt-br: 'Zé Roela'

And to expand on Fulano's family, we must not forget Beltrano and Ciclano.

[–] ComradeR@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 years ago

And "Zé das Couves" (but this one is used more rarely).

[–] babi99@lemm.ee 15 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Does this came from arabic influence?

To refer someone without a name or generic name we sometime say Fulan bin Fulan meaning someone the son of someone

[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

A lot of Spanish words and culture come from Arabic influences, the iberic peninsula was under control of arabs on the VIII century.

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[–] wildeaboutoskar 25 points 2 years ago (3 children)

We have the phrase 'every Tom, Dick and Harry' which is like that (UK)

If we're talking about a generic person it's usually Mr/s Smith or Mr/s Jones (near Wales)

[–] livus@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Do you have "every man and his dog"? (Same meaning as every Tom Dick or Harry")

[–] wildeaboutoskar 3 points 2 years ago

Yeah we do :)

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[–] Grimlo9ic@kbin.social 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

In the Philippines, it's Juan and Maria dela Cruz, although those have fallen out of use due to the popularity of Western (aka US) culture. Interesting reading about every country's own names for their everyman.

[–] Fenzik@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

In the Netherlands there’s “Jan Modaal”, modaal (modal) referring the most commonly occurring value in or peak of a distribution. This name is used often when representing the experience of the most average Dutchman.

It’s especially often used in financial discussions and journalism, like “owning a house is getting further out of reach for Jan Modaal.”

[–] csolisr@communities.azkware.net 13 points 2 years ago

Which correlates nicely with the English expression "your average Joe"!

[–] Pietson@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago

In Belgium we mostly use Jan met de pet ("Jan with the cap")

[–] abbadon420@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

We also have the slur of "sjonnie en anita" when talking about lower class, anti social people, "sjonnie" being the man and "anita" the woman. Both are very common names in older generations, less common in younger generations.

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[–] muttley@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 years ago (1 children)

In the UK it is Joe Bloggs

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[–] alf@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 years ago

In Norway we have “Ola Nordmann” and “Kari Nordmann”. Ola and Kari are pretty common and generic names. Nordmann literally means Norwegian, but can also be used as a last name.

[–] lichengeese 16 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Not to stifle further discussion, but this Wikipedia page has a wealth of examples

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_placeholder_names_by_language

[–] livus@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The examples for places was interesting.

We have "Eketahuna" (meaning, a small town, middle of nowhere). Eketahuna is a real place ha ha.

We have "Waikikamukau" which is a fictional small town. In bad pakeha pronunciation accent it would sound like "why kick a moo cow").

(Aotearoa/NZ)

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[–] Bjaldr@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 2 years ago

In the UK for a random guy it's usually Joe Bloggs.

[–] Green_Bay_Guy@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 years ago

In Vietnam, I think it's just most names 😂. Anh Nguyen is probably a good example. Most Vietnamese have the last name Nguyen. The national naming conventions rival that of religious families in the west. Think, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Anh, An, Thanh, and Minh. Women are the same, but named after things considered beautiful, Tuyet, Hong, Pham, Van.

Funny enough, many names aren't always gendered, so I've met a decent amount of couples with the same first and last names. An Thi Nguyen, and An Van Nguyen is a couple that comes to mind. I dont have to worry about doxxing, since I bet that exists over 1000x here.

[–] Thorny_Thicket@sopuli.xyz 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

In Finnish it's Matti Meikäläinen for male and Maija Meikäläinen for woman. Matti Meikäläinen roughly translates to Matt Myself

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[–] infamousbelgian@waste-of.space 14 points 2 years ago

Flemish talking part of Belgium it is Jan Janssen

[–] halvdan 13 points 2 years ago

Sweden: Svensson, although the most common surname is Andersson.

Specifically for Gothenburg - Glenn "everybody is called Glenn in Gothenburg", or older use - Kålle (male) and Ada (female). Not used that often.

[–] LazaroFilm@lemmy.film 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

France: Martin Dupont

But I prefer Dominique Dupont as the first name is both for men and women.

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[–] Matomo@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 years ago

In the Netherlands, it's either "Jan Smit" (both a very common first and last name, but also a local celebrity's name) or "Henk de Vries" which IIRC is the most common name here.

I also vaguely remember some old Dutch forum naming everyone Henk de Vries by default.

[–] Addfwyn@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 years ago

Japan, you usually use "Taro Tanaka" as the goto placeholder name. Tanaka is a very common surname here and it's super easy to write as well (田中). Sato is actually the most common but also a lot harder to write (佐藤). Tanaka is also a very "working class" name, it litearlly means "in the rice field" and most likely comes from families with a background of rice farmers. Taro also a very common given name; there have been quite a few Taro Tanakas throughout history despite being the placeholder name on most forms and the like. Taro, incidentally means "Big/Strong Son".

I am not sure offhand of a female equilvalent, it's usually Taro as the placeholder.

[–] Rachelhazideas@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Cantonese: 陳大文 (can4 daai6 man4) Japanese: 山田太郎 (yamada taro)

[–] littlecolt@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago

Hahaha yes! I knew I would find a Taro in here. I am not sure what the female version would be. Hina? Haru?

[–] kingthrillgore@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago

Back in the day on an old imageboard we used to call anonymous users "Chopped Liver"

[–] orhtej3@latte.isnot.coffee 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

In Poland typically, both officially and informally, one says N. N. (Latin nomen nescio, identity unknown).

[–] Blizzard@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

What the hell, dude? No one says that. Aren't you thinking of a John Doe?

Polish "John Smith" would be "Jan Kowalski". It is used to refer to an average citizen and also literally means "John Smith".

[–] orhtej3@latte.isnot.coffee 4 points 2 years ago

Fair point, I assumed OP meant people of indeterminate identity. Jan Kowalski is indeed the goto placeholder name.

[–] randint@feddit.nl 6 points 2 years ago

The "John Smith" in Chinese is 王小明 (pinyin: wang2 xiao3 ming2), the 王 being the family name and 小明 being the given name. The 王 is a very common family name (like Smith), 小, small, is a diminutive prefix often added to nicknames, and 明, bright, is a commonly used character in given name. I should note that this is only used for males and there isn't really a "Jane Smith" for females.

[–] 01189998819991197253@infosec.pub 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Jhojho Aboolafya in everywhere in the Middle East I've been.

[–] nooneescapesthelaw@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Can you write it in arabic

انا مش فاهم اه ده

جوجه ابولافيا

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[–] muyessir@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 years ago

In Arabic its “فلان الفلاني" “fulan al-fulany”, which roughly translates to “someone from some family”

[–] Saigonauticon@voltage.vn 2 points 2 years ago

Hm, well about 40% of our population is named Nguyễn. I don't think there's an equivalent expression, but I'd choose Anh Nguyễn. In addition to being a name for both genders, 'Anh' just means something like 'sir' or 'older brother'.

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