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You're getting a lot of answers from Americans. Be aware that CBD oil sold in Germany (Dm, Rossmann, etc.) almost certainly doesn't contain significant levels of THC.
The evidence doesn't seem to suggest CBD alone is effective in pain management:
Cannabis oil that contains THC is almost certainly a different matter.
Thank you for the heads up! Half way through the answers I asked myself if a German community would have been a better pace to ask in terms of obtaining the substances, but the effect should be globally available I guess.
Are you informed if the latter is legally available in Germany?
THC is illegal, at least for now. That's what they're aiming to change at the moment.
Medical marijuana is legal in Germany. If OP needs it for health reasons he could go through legitimate process.
I heard it's legal in theory, but super complicated to impossible to get a prescription.
That's surprising given how close you are to recreational use legalization. Here in Poland MM is legal but we don't have any producers and get fair chunk from Germany (Aurora Deutschland, 420 Pharma).
At the same time medical marijuana business got so silly that you basically go to a website, fill out a form, pay ~€20 fee and get an e-prescription in a couple of hours. There's been some ineffective attempts at cracking down on it in the past weeks that resulted in slight fee increase.
CBD's apparently not really effective for general pain relief, but there's some data that suggest that it's effective for neuropathic pain.
I take a full spectrum extract specifically for neuropathic pain and it's been moderately helpful, and since it's also immunomodulatory it seems to help some with flare-ups of my autoimmune disease. Not a miracle cure or anything, but it's been better than nothing and definitely doesn't make me feel as terrible as the more, uh, pharmaceutical options for treating neuropathic pain such as gabapentin, so I've stuck with it.
After consulting my favorite search engine for what neuropathic pain is (not your fault, but language barrier of a non-native speaker) I guess this is what I'm looking for! How do you obtain your CBD? Pharmacy or online?
Online store. It's Finnish and CBD's not strictly speaking legal here, but it's not exactly illegal either and authorities have outright said they don't know wtf they should be doing with this stuff – so they have the label "small batch collectible product, not for consumption" on their products to cover their asses 😄
Is it funny or sad that a finish collectible affects you positively health-wise? Sounds weird but hey. Sometimes laws are lagging behind so much it's annoying...
Yeah, especially here. Finland's pretty conservative compared to the other Nordics
My wife and I both have lives now because of it. In my case, I have body aches from a bad car wreck, and after ten years of only getting maybe 3 hours of good sleep each night, followed by prescribed meds that left me dopey all day long, marijuana was legalized here. My wife makes CBD cookies for me and after a bit of experimenting to get the right amount, I now generally wake up feeling refreshed and have even been needing less sleep for the last several years.
On the other hand, my wife lives with chronic pain from childhood accidents including one where she was partially paralyzed for a few years (spine injuries suck!). She is now on permanent disability because she wasn't able to sit at a desk for 8 hours a day. Since mj was legalized, she got off the opioids, smokes throughout the day to manage the pain as needed, but is able to get things done around the house when she's having good days (which is most of the time).
If you want to go down this road, you will definitely get a better experience than you have with doctor-prescribed medications, however because there's still not a lot of data on the subject you will want to find what works for YOU. If you do any cooking, learn how to make oil and butter from mj, and use that to bake your own cookies, cakes, or whatever. This way you have control over what strains go in to what you are eating, and you can control how much of it is used. You can get instruments to be more scientific with it, but really once you have some experience with CBD/mj it won't really matter. It also tends to be quite a lot cheaper than buying pre-made edibles from the store.
Now, for what to expect... For my use, the right amount is something that I barely feel, if at all. What I do notice is once it starts to kick in (which is right before bed anyway), I start to drift off and have to make an effort to get up and go to bed. If I eat too much then yeah, things can start to get a bit crazy, and I don't get as good of sleep that night. For my wife managing her pain, she describes it by saying the pain doesn't really go away, she just stops caring about it so it doesn't control her life. Again, the right amount isn't so much that she acts like a stoner all the time (and she consumes a LOT more than I do), but rather it's enough that she can start to function again despite the pain. So it's not unusual for you to not feel anything, but it's also possible you're simply not getting enough.
Hope that helps?
Yeah, thank you! As far as I understand what you describe, your therapy is not solely based on CBD but also a not irrelevant fraction of THC, am I getting that right? Honestly I'm a little scared to go that route, but I'm really happy it held you so much!
Really it depends on the results you are looking for. I think the THC portion helps my wife with the "forget about the pain" part, but what she makes for me is substantially higher CBD. Technically all of it has some percentage of CBD and some percentage of THC, it's a sliding scale depending on the strain, and what I use is nothing like what she uses. So you probably want to start out with strains that are much higher in CBD, especially if you have to go to work while medicating, and see what effect that has for you. What worked for me was taking more and more until I felt the effects, then backing off and realizing I didn't really need that much. It's probably similar to diabetics, knowing where their blood-sugar is at and if they eat a certain thing it will balance them out without needing a shot, you just figure out over time what helps you, and just like any other medication taking too much has negative side effects. Luckily with THIS medication you can't take enough to actually kill you.
Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention... If you are taking edibles, then already having food in your stomach will have an effect on the results, most notably taking longer to do anything. And different strains can also kick in at different speeds. Since I eat my cookie after dinner, it takes around two hours before it actually starts to do anything. If I ate one on an empty stomach it could be 30 minutes or less. Previous food also makes it ramp up slower, meaning that I might start to feel some effects from the THC portion, but I wouldn't be able to go to sleep yet because the CBD portion hasn't really started working yet. Hope that makes sense? You may not have noticed the effects when you tried CBD before because maybe it took longer than you expected to start working so you weren't paying any attention by that time?
Of course if you don't already have some decent experience with it, then it's best to start on the weekend so you don't have to do something crazy like drive to work the next morning. It's possible to get to the point where you can take higher THC strains later in the day -- there are telltale signs that let you know when it's not safe to do things that might be dangerous, but again this takes a lot of experience and the ability to stop and honestly evaluate your current state. The problem here is that it will literally sneak up on you without any warning. I can be sitting at my computer for hours after eating a cookie, writing code or doing something else that requires some pretty focused thought, and have no idea the cookie ever kicked in... Then I stand up to go to the bathroom and realize I can't keep my balance without hanging on to the wall! Even with mine, while I was learning the effects there were a couple mornings I had to call in sick because I could feel that off-balance still nagging at me and didn't want to take any risks. Sorry I keep mentioning this but you definitely want to be careful so nobody gets hurt.
Only with CBD products bought at a marijuana dispensary. The crap they have at gas stations and the like does absolutely nothing.
My favorite has been Mary Jane's subliminal tincture. It's CBD oil in a 1:16 ratio of THC and unlike the other subliminals I've tried, they put some flavor in it so it's like butterscotch and not gross fish oil like flavor that gives me heartburn.
There's been some research and basically those products are unregulated and a good amount of them have zero or negligible actual CBD in them.
Some claim like, grams of CBD and they have zero in them it's just oil. It's basically homeopathic CBD.
It truly matters who you source it from, biggest lesson someone new needs to learn
I'm having trouble finding it, but I ran across a study a few months ago whose results pointed to greater pain relief gains when CBD was consumed with THC, and that both substances alone do less to "relieve" pain.
I wouldn't say it helps relieve pain as much as it lets you be distracted from pain.
Also, personally, when I have used CBD on it's own, it never did anything for me at all. It only ever worked in combination with THC.
Finally, people taking other medications need to be careful about taking CBD.
The vast majority of medications are broken down by enzyme CYP3A4, an enzyme that CBD inhibits.
I am taking a life-saving/life-altering medication to manage a severe disease. It is handled in my body by CYP3A4. Meaning I can really fuck up my medication dosage by taking CBD on its own, because it will inhibit the ability of CYP3A4 to ingest the drug.
User pizza_rolls@kbin.social helpfully pointed out that grapefruit inhibits CYP3A4 as well, so if you're not supposed to eat grapefruit, you should probably also avoid CBD. I hadn't even made that connection myself, very astute, pizza_rolls!
Thank you for pointing that out! ~~In~~ I'm in the happy place of not having to take anything else on a regular basis, but it sure makes sense to keep the heads up of required.
Absolutely. I am glad I did the research myself and stumbled across this fact, because when I was prescribed this drug I bought a lot of CBD chocolates, thinking they would help. I was surprised that sooooooooo many prescribed medications use CYP3A4 as a pathway to enter the body, and how this isn't discussed more often. I really haven't seen very much discussion at all about how CBD can inhibit the effectiveness of a whole host of prescription drugs.
Anyway, cheers, glad to be sharing the info!
I used to take CBD every day for anxiety and I only found this out after a couple years so thanks for bringing it up. If your medication says to avoid grapefruit, then you probably should not take CBD
If your medication says to avoid grapefruit, then you probably should not take CBD
I didn't even make that connection, but yeah, exactly! Grapefruit inhibits the exact same enzyme. That's a really good way to know, I'm going to add that to my post.
YES!!!!
the most important thing you must understand is that QUALITY MATTERS. Even the stuff I got at dispensaries could be hit or miss.
I use AlliantHemp for my CBD, CBG, and CBN supplements and it truly changed my life in regards to replacing other medicines
The Reddit CBD sub was a big help for me on finding reputable sources. If the sub still exists check out their sidebar (and then leave so you don’t give Reddit more engagement)
AMA if u want
Thank you for your response! Of it's not tmi, can you dig a little deeper in what regards it has been a help for you? Also pain relief?
So I use CBG/CBD/CBN to get thru life
Mostly it’s for anxiety and stomach stuff but the inflammatory stuff is a great help as well.
But specifically for pain, I am unfortunately one of those people who gets kidney stones naturally (my whole family does). I almost exclusively drink water with citrus but no true escape. Anyway, I have been working a stone thru my ureter for the last 6 months or so and let me tell it it can be excruciating. Many ER visits many opioids etc. but the docs will not give you any pain meds unless you go to the ER, and what they give you spans a week max if you’re lucky.
In comes CBD and kratom, which have helped me greatly with managing the pain that comes with existing with a stone or two in a ureter smaller than said stone.
With the entourage effect CBG will potentiate CBD and together they have been a huge factor for my pain. CBN has been huge for my sleep as well
90 seconds of CBD tincture under the tongue and then another 90 of CBG and in minutes comes relief. It’s no opioid but it’s not nothing either. You mileage WILL vary but do not be discouraged!! Try different manufacturers, different cannibinoids (CBG/CBN/etc), different combinations of them, we each have a unique body which makes these things more complex than just swallow any kind of cbd
My wife was struggling with anxiety attacks from PTSD. She tried a few different CBD blends before settling on a pure CBD isolate with only flavoring added. She would buy it at a pharmacy that made their own specialty medications in-house. She would take it first thing in the morning and if she felt anxiety coming on later in the day. It really helped make her anxiety a little more manageable.
She eventually found a good psychiatrist that prescribed anti anxiety medication, and she hasn't really needed the CDB since. But it was very helpful for the few months that it took to find a psychiatrist and medication that worked for her.
Be careful. I suffer from anxiety too and used CBD for a while. At some point I was prescribed meds after having a few panic attacks due to some life issues. Those meds were benzodiazepines. That shit is amazing in the moment. Might be the most impactful medication I've ever taken. But they are easily the most addictive thing I have ever used (and I was a fairly troubled youth if you know what I mean). Long term they are awful for memory and may increase the odds of dimentia significantly. And withdrawal is some of the most severe of any addictive substance. Talking seizures and possible death from going cold turkey if you've been on for a long time and higherish dosage. Really only alcohol compares as far as withdrawal symptoms. Heroine and cocaine are less severe.
So all I'm saying is that if they are benzos, they are not a good long term solution in spite of the fact that they work very well. All benzos labels say they should only be given for very short term management, but doctor's hand out that shit like candy.
Cognitive behavioral therapy is absolutely great for anxiety and requires less or no drugs. Also, there are some other options for long term management that aren't so dangerous. Hopefully it is one of those if she takes it regularly.
Funny you should say that. She was prescribed Xanax in the short term to get her to the point where we could find a long term solution. And much like you described, it was great for the few hours after she took it. But her body craved more after that, and it made it so she couldn't sleep without it. It completely fucked her mood. It was awful and terrifying. She got off of it, but it was a long and painful process. We luckily had an amazing friend who had gone through the same thing come live with us for 2 months to help take care of her. And the doctors were so good about giving her a weaning plan.
She's now on an antidepressant as a long term solution. Idr which type. And she has been off Xanax for 9 months.
the problem is the legality of other cannibinoids where you live …
Thank you for your balanced thoughts! Well your first point kinda might be an issue. I guess I haven't dived deep enough into this topic to answer whether these mixtures are legally available here. Speaking of it: can you (or someone you know 😉) feel any psychedelic effect of the THC with a 20:1 ratio?
I tried to convince trained professionals twice to go the mentioned route with me. Instead, the looked for me as if I asked for a roofie on the house. So that is another issue...
I find CBD oil helps with anxiety. Not a severe case of anxiety, but it does take the edge off.
This is a tricky question. I'm inclined to have a positive opinion about CBD, but if I'm completely honest I don't feel much of anything from it solo. I've taken CBD by itself multiple times and it always just seemed like a placebo. I think CBD and THC together have a great synergy, but it really misses the mark when I only have the one without psychoactive effects.
On the other hand, I've had friends swear by CBD tinctures. They were doing large doses (like 50mg+) daily and claimed it had all sorts of benefits for their chronic pain or upset stomach. I never tried doing doses that big regularly just because of the cost and my previous experiences leaving me dissatisfied.
For what it's worth, Extract Labs is one of the sources I've had recommended to me by a trusted friend.
Yes CBD and THC is synergistic but that’s not the end of that story. You should try two things:
Buy actual quality CBD and CBG oil
put each under your tongue for ~90 seconds, add THC if you want
You don’t need to chug a bottle of oil and the end goal isn’t to feel high it doesn’t manage pain the way THC or other pain killers do
Thank you for passing on the recommendation! I'm a little scared to go with any significant fraction of THC... Maybe my dose was just too low so far.
IRC you can't even buy CBD oil with a significant amount of THC in Germany.
Honestly, if you live near the border with NL or know someone, you're better off smoking a joint or making some brownies, or buying actual cannabis oil with THC from time to time. It'll make you high if you take too much, but IME does actually work unlike CBD alone which has little scientific evidence of working.
Sure, drugs bad. But honestly, weed is far less dangerous than alcohol. IME also tends to wear off after max 4 hours even if you smoked far too much, unlike alcohol where you can be slightly drunk the next day, not notice, and end up driving drunk. Ibuprofen really isn't great used longterm. Neither is paracetamol. Be careful about interactions with other medication though.
Buy some actual cannabis oil, make some brownies, experiment how much is needed to get you high. Take a little less than that.
And hope Germany fully legalizes soon. Even if you never use weed, if some people smoke a joint rather than drink, it'll result in less vomit and fighting.
On the other hand, I’ve had friends swear by CBD tinctures. They were doing large doses (like 50mg+) daily and claimed it had all sorts of benefits for their chronic pain or upset stomach.
That's because their endocannabinoid system is actively in use, unlike people who do not take CBD supplements. We metabolized CBD very well and our bodies will use it when it's there, so for a lot of people taking CBD they need to jump-start the endocannabinoid system to start processing it.
Often times people will take 1000mg for the first week (or two), then cut that in half to 500mg, then in half for until you are down to 50mg or 15mg doses. Normally we'd have been getting our CBD compounds from the things we eat that eat hemp, something that was prevalent as a feed in the U.S. and is still prevalent in other countries (Nepal, for example). However since we stopped using hemp, animals stopped passing on CBD compounds to us and here we are today with a society full of symptoms of a non-working endocannabinoid system (and well, signs of lead poisoning but lets just move past that...) which include - chronic nerve pain, gastrointestinal issues, issues with insomnia, mood and anxiety. You know, everything that we attribute to just the daily struggles of society today.
Of course, they most likely are just that, but it seems pretty crazy to me that we have a whole system in our body that is essentially on the backburner with very high correlation to many of the health problems.
Just remember, don't be afraid of THC. They need each other to work effectively, and THC doesn't have to mean high. Obviously, if it's a legality issue that's a different story, but in regards to an edible that has >5% or uses the letters LOC then don't even think about it for a second - it's fine. Think of its present as the catalyst for the reaction.
Germany allows max 0.2% THC. Ie. might as well have no THC at all.
Realistically, I think CBD oil sold in much of Europe is a scam because of similar regulation.
You're better off buying actual weed, but adjusting the dose, than wasting your money on what they sell in health shops here.
I've tried CBD oil and no worky for me. 😕
Me, personally, I noticed an effect. However, I've never been a potist.
I used it for when I was sick. I got some flavored oil and put a few drops under my tongue occasionally.
Yes, it helped calm me down. But, I was hungover after I stopped taking it. But I get hangovers very easily because my liver has lived a few lives at this point - I was a bit of an alcoholist.
Thank you! Does calm down also refer to some pain felt or was it rather recreational?
But more importantly: the past tense in your last sentence sounds like you are still going strong without. If so: an internet stranger is proud of you!
Thanks internet stranger, yes I'm not drinking anymore.
So now I'm remembering I had something wrong with my foot, or some sort of swelling somewhere. And it did help relieve the pain, but personally I wouldn't take it again for that because of the hangover.
Your body feels hungover because you were taking something that your body was using and then you stopped providing it. That's not really a hangover so much as a previous source of nutrition that's no longer being had!
Taking CBD compounds helps start and regulate our endocannabinoid system which helps with chronic nerve pain, gastrointestinal issues, issues with insomnia, mood, and anxiety.
Basically, it's not like you were taking some acetaminophen for a headache to literally stop you from feeling its presence. It's still there, regardless of the medication or not. It's more like you were taking something that acted as a muscle relaxant, which removed the pressure from the thing preventing the headache from happening in the first place.
Maybe, but ya know drugs affect everyone differently, and I can tell you it 100% felt like a hangover - like drinking, not like something I needed.
Well I bought CBD a few times now and roll it like a cigarette. It relieves stress very well and calms down - that's basically all CBD does. I can not handle THC but I have great experience with a CBD cigarette once every 6 months or so.
that’s basically all CBD does
Yes but there is also more to CBD, it also relieves pain, helps with inflammation, insomnia, etc too.
People should know it’s not just CBD anymore, there is CBG, CBN, etc. as well that are just as helpful in slightly unique ways
I refer to them as the CBD compounds. Like you said, these work with the entourage effect and so having just one isn't nearly as effective as getting the full, or at least a wider, spectrum.
Yeah I think I forgot these details haha
Thanks for clearing this up
Thank you for your report. Working wanting to be too scientific: do you control the CBD:THC in your Sportzigarette or do you take it as it comes?
Well, the few times I tried THC I always have been invited, so I don't know the ratio. And the CBD I sometimes get is from Austria. They never said anything about THC on it, if I'm not mistaken. But from what I know, only female pants produce the THC, so it should always have been as THC reduced as the plant can grow it.
Edit: was hard to read, I made the sentences more easy on the eye.
Edit 2: just realized you're a Feddit.de user, too!