I'll be honest a big motivation for posting this is to try to get feminist men active in a dedicated community on Lemmy. Currently there's !mensliberation@lemmy.ca but it's fairly inactive. Trying to give it a bit of a jump start so if anybody feels like that's something they would benefit from please check it out! Also if anybody knows of a similar community with more activity please let me know.
this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
36 points (100.0% liked)
Feminism
1871 readers
1 users here now
Feminism, women's rights, bodily autonomy, and other issues of this nature. Trans and sex worker inclusive.
See also this community's sister subs LGBTQ+, Neurodivergence, Disability, and POC
Also check out our sister community on lemmy:
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
It's been on our radar for a bit, but for reasons likely outlined in this video (haven't had a chance to watch it yet) there's often issues with online men's lib spaces needing additional moderation to help ensure they don't get invaded by bad actors who are sexist or incel. We'll likely launch a space like this eventually, but it just hasn't been the right time yet.
That's amazing to hear and I really feel like beehaw is exactly the sort of space that could pull it off. Y'all do great work over there
I can't imagine creating a men's rights community on the Internet today. It just seems like it would instantly be filled with... well... men's right's activists.
In many ways I think the problem is identical to "white rights activists." Men-ness (and white-ness) are created by contrast to other groups and their liberation and political progress, not because of an internal group identity that already exists. That is to say, a men's liberation group would be created in response to women creating women's liberation groups -- it can never escape its fate of being a reaction and an opposition. Unfortunately, "menninism" will always be about feminism, and that conversation usually turns pretty dark.
I agree with Natalie that it would be great if this weren't true or men could articulate a clear concept of masculinity that was not: toxic, patriarchal, or a reaction against feminism. I just don't know what it could possibly be that wouldn't escape that fate.
Menslib on Reddit was one of the very few places I've seen thread that needle correctly. There are real issues that men experience and in fact you already named a few. Having a space to vent about how toxic masculinity makes it hard to connect with other humans because you're worried about your perception or how it may have lead to you suppressing your feelings for so long you no longer recognize them easily is a real boon to a lot of people. Having a space to celebrate amazing male icons who inspire others with their deeds is cool too.
The key is just making sure it's got the right moderation team to ensure that people don't point at easy scape goats for their problems and that we all acknowledge the complicated systems at play which often oppress us all. We need strong moderation to prevent those who have maladapted from preying on angry and hurt men. It's not an easy space because there's a strong history and culture of these spaces existing in toxic ways but that's only because of manipulation and not enough examples of how to do it right
I see what you're saying, but as a trans woman from a very rural area I see so much pain in the men in my life. And a lot of them I think just need to understand that they personally are harmed by the patriarchal ideas that they grew up with. Talking to many of them you can tell that they can FEEL the harm but lack the words and community to put the whole picture together.
I think r/menslib shows it can be done, with very clear community rules and good moderation. There's definitely a need for it. There are plenty of men out there with their heads screwed on right and who need to be able to talk about issues that effect men without the conversation being derailed into sexist rants about women. I think maybe you're a little too pessimistic about men and their ability to define masculinity for themselves in a healthy and un sexist way.
I'm in my mid 40s and most men who can have these kind of thoughts have ended up being trans or queer.
Interesting, I'm late 40s, and I'd say my closest straight male friends definitely fall more within the men's lib way of thinking, or at least are valiantly trying, because they see through the bullshit and see how harmful it is. The vast majority of straight men of my generation though, no, they're not like that at all. It's desperately sad. They're miserable and angry but can't see the box they're in that's making them that way.
I'm in my 30s, and I've heard most of the straight men I know rant or at least comment about transphobia, sexism, and/or racism. I'm in a red state, so I know there are plenty of trash men, but the ones in my city are generally ok.
Yeah this is both my age and my experience.
That said everyone seems really into this idea so I’m prepared to be proven wrong. Who knows, maybe the new men’s liberation ideology that Nalatie foretold truly is out there.
i frequented r/menslib and it was actually fairly leftist and clear about the ways that traditional concepts of patriarchy often disadvantages men and encourages inclusivity and talking about mental health. it certainly takes more intentionality, but i think they do it pretty well.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Natalie's videos explained trans issues to me in a way that completely changed my mind about the whole topic. I'm very grateful to her for putting out that content in a way that my brain could digest.
I love ContraPoints.
I don't think this is her strongest, but it is still very very good.
mind sharing what you think her strongest might be? i’ve been watching a bit of her recently and really like how she presents ideas
Ohhh gosh. What a tough question. They’re all masterpieces in their own way.
I think the classic is Jordan Peterson. A deft takedown and a fascinating and quick exploration of 19th and 20th century philosophy.
I’m personally a huge fan of the Aesthetic. I used to be a Justine stan but I’ve come round more to Tabby’s way of thinking.
For her longer pieces, Envy is where it’s at. Though… the Witch Trials of J. K. Rowling are also amazing if you’re involved in Harry Potter or J. Ro thoughts.
The toughest to watch outside of her early stuff is probably Tiffany Tumbles. Still really good but it’s difficult to see the plight of a right-wing woman and how respectability politics can turn us into monsters.
Share your thoughts here when you’re done! I’m excited to hear what you think!
I love Natalie Wynn and Abigail Thorn, they both put out some of the finest philosophical content and contemporary analysis in existence. I watched everything I could find.
That was amazing.