this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023
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I see a very small minority of people using Kbin, but I don't understand why.

Is this just a coincidence and did some people choose Kbin over Lemmy or is there a good reason to use Kbin?

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[–] EatALime@kbin.social 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Kbin does a better job of putting new posts in front of you even before you have subscribed to anything, so I think it is easier to find interesting things to read. Kbin is newer than Lemmy, so Lemmy had the advantage in familiarity for people. More people had heard of it when Reddit's API drama blew up and that gave Lemmy a distinct advantage when people picked a new platform. Kbin also has some annoyances like not being able to collapse comments and vote buttons being at the top instead of the bottom of posts and comments. If someone has written a lengthy comment, I want to read through the whole thing before I decide how to vote and I don't want to scroll back up to get to a vote button. To reply to a post you also have to scroll through the comment section. In some cases it's good to see if someone else has already said what you are going to say, but in other cases if someone is looking for personal stories, you don't necessarily need to read everyone else's story before submitting your own.

Personally I have this kbin account and a lemmy account as well. My Lemmy server seems to go down more often and the default sort always shows the same days old pinned posts from my server admin that I can't seem to hide after reading. On Reddit, I didn't have to switch sort to see newer stuff so Lemmy comes across as pretty stale sometimes even though there is a fair amount of posting going on.

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

On lemmy the default is Active, which basically boosts any post that still has some recent chatter going on but is otherwise "stale". In the settings though you can change the default sort. I've gone with Hot, which is I think the default sort on kbin too.

Can you change the default sort on kbin? I could work how to.

[–] unknowing8343@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But Hot is broken in Lemmy, it shows old stuff like it's hot. The system is broken, but I think there is a PR on the way.

[–] TheHalc@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I've heard that the "hot surfacing old posts" bug is more prevalent on instances that haven't restarted for a while. It still shouldn't happen, but I don't think it's universal.

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hmmm ... it seems fine to me. I'd heard it was broken before though.

In what way is it broken?

[–] kamiheku@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Like the parent said, it surfaces old (as in years old) posts as "hot". Not sure if that's the case still, but I have definitely noticed it before.

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah ... right ... yea I've seen that happen occasionally ... I had actually presumed that something had been changed with that post, perhaps by an admin or something cleaning stuff up, and that triggered a new timestamp for the post.

Maybe still a bug. I'll keep track now of when it happens as it might help sort it out.

But still, that's rarely the case for me. Just went down a fair way in my feed now and there wasn't a single occurrence of it. Could it be particular communities causing it, maybe from instances on older software?

Otherwise though, Hot seems to do what I'd want. Combine with a bit of New or Top for an appropriate time window and I'm all good.

For comments, Hot/New/Top all do what I'd want too.

[–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's still a bug. My server is at 0.18.2 and I regularly see old posts if I sort by Hot.

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Links to Communities or Instances?

FWIW, just checked mine and no problems (and I'm subscribed to plenty of communities).

[–] SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is the bottom half of the first page of my subscribed feed and I restarted my lemmy instance yesterday to make a config change.

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

OK, I couldn't help myself, and checked GItHub. Seems the issue may have been fixed hours ago. Don't know when the new version will ship though.

Seems the issue may been to do with the process that updates the ranks of posts not being able to catch up to older posts, and so they show up with out of date ranks/scores. That process has been optimised, apparently, and should have no problem keeping up with all of the posts.

https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/pull/3617

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[–] in2thesame@lemmy.fmhy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hey! Thanks for explaining. How can I use/Download Kbin?

[–] hardypart@feddit.de 5 points 1 year ago

Just go to kbin.social, this is the largest instance. There are other, smaller instances, too. Just like Lemmy.

[–] livus@kbin.social 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Why I joined

  • had a more intuitive interface

  • had a better aesthetic

  • had a much cooler name

  • the dev seemed like a cool guy

  • before federation it felt exciting like being on the ground floor of something

Why I stayed

  • has heaps of cool features and functions that are easy to use

  • I like the Mastodon interface too

  • turns out the dev definitely is awesome and everything is very open

  • it has a really chill community

  • I still just like it more than the various Lemmys

[–] mrbubblesort@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Kbin's UI is just better. I realize both can be customized, but I'd prefer not to mess around with any of that yet. Plus I know people on mastadon, so that sealed it for me.

[–] freeman@lemmy.pub 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Customizations brought vulns on Lemmy with the custom emojis introducing XSS vulns and a few takeovers in the recent weeks.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

but that's not the fault of the UI, that's the fault of the server and/or operator for allowing something like that to be even theoretically possible in the first place.

This is why you place UIs on separate domains from the servers, and always treat user input like it's radioactive AND toxic.

[–] freeman@lemmy.pub 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The custom emoji's was a developed feature of Lemmy pushed out in their UI code. Even the project mainters instance was affected. Its why 0.18.2 was released.

https://join-lemmy.org/news/2023-07-11_-_Lemmy_Release_v0.18.2

Thats not on server/infra operators. It was a vuln in the core UI code. Some operators DID patch it themselves (i think Beehaw is one), others were less affected (ie: My instance is closed and i dont use custom emjis anyhow), but those are features introduced by the maintainers and some of the bigger instances would get requests for them anyhow. So it was a problem.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

but the fundamental vulnerability is not in the UI, by that logic you could just run your own UI and get into servers without issue, the vulnerability is always in either the server software or in the specific deployment.

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[–] HipPriest@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago

I tried both, lurked a while and Kbin just seemed a bit more user friendly for me. Nothing deeper for me, just a matter of taste really.

[–] A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl 9 points 1 year ago

Kbin has a way better UI, but it needs better servers and having apps for Lemmy like liftoff makes me wait to get something similar before switching back to kbin.

[–] EROLoLICON@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I think kbin is more promising than lemmy. The admin seems a good guy, kind and levelheaded. Since a month ago, before the blackout, he build kbin by himself and since then someone even volunteered to help him polishing the site.
The site looks polished but still in beta and they're actively ironing out hundreds bugs and feature request by us users.
Ultimately also the users are nice people. Many of us have donated money and right now the admin have enough money for nearly a year. Source: https://kbin.social/m/kbinMeta/t/177112/kbin-project-management-costs-financing-future-plans

[–] Arotrios@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Seriously this - @ernest has done a fucking incredible job. This software is flat-out amazing from a publisher's or author's perspective. It really encourages quality submissions as well, and the community is extremely positive.

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[–] legion@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

The UI! It's so much better than the other Lemmy instances. Also I can curse without getting banned lmao

[–] tiredofsametab@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I like the UI better, like that it interacts with things like Mastadon, and, what was honestly the biggest thing, doesn't have a dumb auto-refresh I can't disable (which Lemmy did (at least for a while)).

They both have a lot of growing up to do. Not being able to collapse threads in kbin is driving me crazy; especially for long threads with many nested levels, I can't tell what is even top-level.

[–] varzaman@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lemmy got rid of the auto refresh you’re referring to. No more live updates.

[–] tiredofsametab@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

That's good news. I'm fine with it as an optional setting, but I hated trying to read something and poof

[–] 1chemistdown@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Look up kbin enhancement suit KES. They have android, iOS and Mac that I know of. Simple to add and they’re implementing a lot of features

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[–] RTFT@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There's two different PRs with collapsible threads in codeberg. Fingers crossed one or the other get merged soon.

https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/pulls/167
https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/pulls/704

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[–] NotAPenguin@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] jlh@lemmy.jlh.name 6 points 1 year ago

That has nothing to do with Lemmy as a piece of software. Outside contributers are already contributing more than dessalines and nutomic.

[–] notmyredditusername@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I have both and prefer kbin from a UI side on desktop, but the lack of android app means I dont use it on mobile yet.

[–] Shift_@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

The Artemis app is in beta and it's looking pretty promising. Definitely still some bugs, but the UI is dead simple and easy to customize. Switching to a subbed only view works well too. The official mag is m/artemisapp

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[–] Chozo@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Kbin also has Mastodon integration (though it's still being worked on and isn't in its final form yet), which I think is handy because I'm hoping that Kbin doesn't defederate from Meta, so that I can also still have an account to keep in touch with people I care about who are going to be using Threads without having to manage another account elsewhere.

I also prefer the layout to Kbin better. While the stock Lemmy layout is nice (it does a fantastic job of emulating the old.reddit layout), I like the fact that Kbin shows a little bit more text about each post. It also keeps more data public (like your votes and reputation scores), which I actually prefer being out in the open, as it helps weed out people who may be giving bad faith arguments in various discussions.

[–] WhyIDie@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The votes being public to end users is a big thing I really like that kbin has; I hope that functionality eventually makes it over to lemmy's front end once a lot of the fires are put out.

Transparency in online interactions has continually been whittled away over time. Seeing who wants to boost or bury something gives so much more context to content, especially to outside observers passing by.

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[–] themadcodger@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

If kbin.social does defederate from meta, you can migrate to another kbin server that hasn't. That's one of the nice things about the fediverse!

[–] AnonymousLlama@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Yep keen on the layout overall

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[–] AnonymousLlama@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

I like that there's both an update, downvote and boost feature. Recently the sorting / weighting mechanism was changed where boost = 2 upvotes so it's nice to upvote something + give it a boost so it sorts higher.

There's a lot of customization user wise also, I've been exceptionally busy working with the other contributors to make the mobile UI/UX a priority. There's been a heap of dev work going around so keen to see when that all gets into prod.

I've got a feeling that with another solid month or two of updates, tweaks and features that kbin will be really solid.

[–] donuts@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I mainly just wanted to try Kbin after having already tried Lemmy before.

[–] IHeartBadCode@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Literally was that Kbin started with the letter K, and thus matched with my going DE, KDE. So really just a matter of taste I guess. I always recommend people to use what they like.

[–] Roundcat@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I was introduced to kbin first, and after giving both kbin and lemmy a shot, I decided on kbin as my primary. I prefer the layout mostly. Yes I know you can customize lemmy to get it to a similar look and feel, but kbin feels great straight out the box. The Mastodon integration is interesting, and its nice to keep up with what's going on there at the same time on one site. Also as federation users, we are encouraged to join smaller instances to lighten the load of ml and world, and kbin seems to be a good compromise of joining a smaller instance that isn't too empty. Also, with the recent hacks happening with the bigger lemmy instances, I feel like I made the right call sticking around here.

[–] speck@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

On top of elements already mentioned by others, an initial draw for me was the tenor of exchanges I was seeing on kbin. Of course the instances all interflow and I won't claim that Lemmy instances are not the same. But that was my initial experience. I like having a home base where there's some effort made to be communal and give thought out answers.

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