this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2025
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How would you answer this, and how would you expect Chinese netizens on Xiaohongshu to answer?

I will link to the thread in the comments because I want you to take a moment and think about it first.

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 20 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I think it's pretty clear that despite Trump's attempts to revitalize US manufacturing, the US won't be able to outpace China's industrial growth even if they hard pivot. China is, like it or not, almost certainly the next Global Hegemon as the US' grip on the world is falling. Western Europe won't be able to oppose it either.

I think Chinese citizens are generally hopeful for their country, but more than anything I think most of their citizens would want everyone to advance. I don't think any doubt that China will surpass the US.

[–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

In many ways, China already has surpassed the US.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 weeks ago

For sure. However, the PRC is still a developing countrt, while the US is a declining Empire. The US has farther to fall and China further to rise, especially in the next 1-2 decades.

[–] Achyu@lemmy.sdf.org 15 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

As an Indian, I think they seem more well-planned and more decent than recent USAmerica.
India and China does have border issues, but I do respect them as I agree with their leftist view of reducing poverty and improving literacy. I think our countries could come to decent compromise there.
Also, the communism aspects.

But saying that a single country is the future is too simple.

And even the Chinese seem to be not emulating America to be an empire.
I think their aim is a multi-polar world. Atleast if the random yt vids I saw are proper representations.

[–] OlgaAbi@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I mean china is an authoritarian state, that kinda thing never works for long

[–] lolola@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm saying this unironically: this comment could go on any dumbass thread about China's dumbass social media and dumbass AI. I don't understand why I don't see it more.

They. Are. Authoritarian.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The reason you don't see it more is because "authoritarian" isn't a hard line you can cross, but a general descriptor, and as a consequence many will disagree about the legitimacy of that vague descriptor or believe other countries like the US fit that descriptor better. What do you personally think counts as sufficient to label one country authoritarian, and another not? Can you give an example of each, or is every country authoritarian? Does it matter if some are more or less authoritarian? All of these questions have different answers from person to person, because they apply to a general descriptor and not a hard metric, like "does the PRC have growing wages for the working class?" Or "do Chinese people enioy their system?" Food for thought.

[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

the future of neo-colonialism? definitely

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Belt and Road Initiative, China owning most of the cobalt reserves and refining resources that oftentimes rely on enslaved child labor, anti-Black discrimination inside Chinese enclaves in Africa (1) (2), mandating Mandarin in Ugandan schools, with Kenya and South Africa making it optional

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

Can you elaborate on how BRI is Imperialism? Further, learning mandarin as a second language in schooling isn't the same as forcing everyone to speak it, Spanish is required learning in many US schools and it isn't a form of Mexican imperialism. I'd also like to see a source on the child labor in the cobalt mines.

The racial discrimination is terrible, no doubt, and it needs to be worked on and fixed. However, this doesn't seem to be something the PRC is pushing so much as individual racists. I am hopeful that that situation will improve especially.

There are many arguments against China being Imperialist, from Vijay Prashad. Here's an excerpt from a sepatate article, a quick 9 minute read:

In a 2005 presentation to the Congressional U.S.-China Commission, U.S. State Department official Princeton Lyman assessed how China’s model of socialist state loans don’t serve the function of profit:

"China utilizes a variety of instruments to advance its interest in ways that western nations can only envy. Most of China’s investments are through state-owned companies, whose individual investments do not have to be profitable if they serve overall Chinese objectives. Thus the representative of China’s state-owned construction company in Ethiopia could reveal that he was instructed by Beijing to bid low on various tenders, without regard for profit. China’s long term objective in Ethiopia is in access to future natural resource investments, not in construction business profits."

Despite recent claims that China has been using its companies to engage in neo-colonialism throughout Africa, the situation Lyman assessed has continued to be the case throughout the last fifteen years. As I’ve mentioned in past writings, China’s investments do not meet the definition of neo-colonialism; Chinese enterprises help the job markets abroad rather than only employing Chinese workers, China hasn’t been engaging in “land grabs” in Africa, and China isn’t working to trap African nations in debt. In accordance with China’s not engaging in regime change, China has also never favored any government for its form or ideology.

[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm really glad to hear that in classic ML fashion, you know better than Ugandans themselves what does or doesn't constitute colonialism. I recommend actually watching the TikTok video from the Ugandan activist I linked you that already explains how Mandarin is erasing indigenous languages in favor of facilitating Chinese exploitation of local resources.

Believe it or not, Spanish is also a colonial language. It's pretty well known in any history book that it was used to enact cultural genocide on indigenous people all across Turtle Island. Indigenous people in Latin America have the "choice" of assimilating into Spanish culture or face poverty, starvation and genocide by white Latinos.

lmao imagine unironically linking the qiao collective, the mouthpiece of the CCP, as a credible source. I was wondering how long until the .ml brainwashing chip activates 🤭

here's an even quicker read:

The University of California, Irvine report stated that the Qiao Collective posts “positive, often revisionist perspectives about Chinese politics.” That report stated that Qiao Collective claims that the “West’s perceptions of China as a human rights violator are actually the opposite; China is benevolent in helping marginalized people.” 1

The UC Irvine report stated that the Qiao Collective is particularly sympathetic with regard to how China treats the Uyghur people. 1 On Aug. 31, 2022, the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights released a report stating that the “Chinese government’s rights violations against Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslims in Xinjiang ‘may constitute … crimes against humanity.’” 5

The left-of-center Human Rights Watch stated that since 2017, the Chinese government has carried out “a widespread and systematic” attack against the Uyghur people that included mass detention, torture, religious persecution, separation of families, forced labor and sexual violence. 5

The UC Irvine report stated that the Qiao Collective “assert[s]” that re-education camps do not exist and the camps were built to “deradicalize” extremists so they can get proper training to live on their own. UC Irvine’s report stated that Qiao claimed the camps teach Uyghurs to “better function in the economy,” learn technical skills, and they are allowed to go home a couple times per week to see their families.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

I watched it in full.

As for Spanish, I'm aware of its origins. I still don't see how making it a mandatory second language in many US schools would imply Mexican or Spanish colonization of the US.

As for linking QiaoCollective, yes, I did. Is there a problem with reading sources that go against your narrative? Funny you link HRW, which is a US-based group founded explicitly to push anti-communism:

>Human Rights Watch was co-founded by Robert L. Bernstein,[8] Jeri Laber, and Aryeh Neier[9] as a private American NGO in 1978, under the name Helsinki Watch, to monitor the then-Soviet Union's compliance with the Helsinki Accords.[10] Helsinki Watch adopted a practice of publicly "naming and shaming" abusive governments through media coverage and direct exchanges with policymakers. Helsinki Watch says that, by shining the international spotlight on human rights violations in the Soviet Union and its European partners, it contributed to the region's democratic transformations in the late 1980s.[10]

Some criticism:

In 2014, two Nobel Peace Laureates, Adolfo Pérez Esquivel and Mairead Maguire, wrote a letter signed by 100 other human rights activists and scholars criticizing HRW for its revolving-door hiring practices with the U.S. government, its failure to denounce the U.S. practice of extrajudicial rendition, its endorsement of the U.S. 2011 military intervention in Libya, and its silence during the 2004 Haitian coup d'état.[68]

In 2020, HRW's board of directors discovered that HRW accepted a $470,000 donation from Saudi real estate magnate Mohamed Bin Issa Al Jaber, owner of a company HRW "had previously identified as complicit in labor rights abuse", under the condition that the donation not be used to support LGBT advocacy in the Middle East and North Africa. After The Intercept reported the donation, it was returned, and HRW issued a statement that accepting it was "deeply regrettable".[69]

HRW does good work sometimes, like calling out Israel for their genocide on Palestinians, but they were formed explicitly to target countries that dared stand against US hegemony. Read the actual, full UN report.

[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

if you think criticizing the USSR is "anti-communist" that's your own cultist complex to deal with. critiquing Russian imperialism has always and will be based, regardless if it's hiding under the hammer and sickle or the Wagner logo

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

There's meaningful critique of the USSR, yes. Being founded in the United States to serve as a watchdog over the Soviets at the height of the Cold War while the United States was licking its wounds after commiting untold masses of war crimes in Vietnam is the peak of hypocricy and purely exists to slander Communism. Moreover, the USSR was not Imperialist, it stood against Imperialism by supporting Cuba, China, Vietnam, Algeria, Palestine, Korea, and more liberate themselves from Imperialism and Colonialism.

[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

do y'all ever get tired of the genocide denialism circlejerk? don't you feel pathetic to do the job of Russia and China for free? at least get new material besides "X is anti-US, therefore X anti-imperialist and therefore communist ". it's called being a tankie

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

The UN report says that while the camps may constitute crimes against humanity, they aren't genocidal. The claims of genocide come from Adrian Zens, a far-right Christian Nationalist that, get this, believes he was given a mission from God to discredit China. US-based media spreads these as "claims" because there's no punishment for spreading these claims, and if no evidence comes out of these crimes of excess then they can rely on having only reported "claims." What Qiao Collective states is in line with the UN report and what the visitors China has invited from the Middle East to investigate back up.

As for the logical pretzel you created at the end, that's just condescending. Many non-Communist groups are anti-US, like the Russian Federation, which is fully Capitalist. There are plenty of reasons to oppose the US without being Communist. However, there are AES states that go against the US as well.

[–] amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Adrian as reprehensible as he might be is only circulating data that's been leaked from Chinese Police databases full of thousands of pictures of Uyghurs in concentration camps.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/85qihtvw6e/the-faces-from-chinas-uyghur-detention-camps

What Qiao Collective states is in line with the UN report and what the visitors China has invited from the Middle East to investigate back up.

you can't have it both ways. if you wanna be a tankie at least don't rely on western alligned monarchies to support your alternative facts.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/china-uyghurs-condemn-islamic-scholar-propaganda-trip-xinjiang

the irony isn't lost on me that you're basing your genocide denialism on paid propaganda from government clerics going on supervised tours, who also support Israel in their genocide of Palestinians. also the irony that all tankies engaging in anti-Uyghur genocide denialism are simply regurgitating 9/11 "terrorist" propaganda but they like it this time because China lightly repackaged it, put a red bow on top and made it their official policy.

I support justice for Uyghurs because I follow Uyghur activists and academics, I couldn't give a shit about Zenz. Unlike you, we don't have a daddy fetish where we have to blindly follow a great leader.

there's no such thing as socialist states. that's just stalinist "communism in one country" fascist bs

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 8 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

Funny that you link the BBC, given their historical willingness to lie on the subject and continue to report the ludicrous 10,000 dead at Tian'anmen figure that was the sole claim of a British diplomat that fled the square before the PLA arrived, and later was confirmed to have been a fabrication. Hundreds died that day, maybe low thousands, not 10,000, yet the BBC both knows that and reports otherwise. BBC also got caught doctoring images to make China seem "depressing" that they swapped back after getting called out.

Either way, Zenz is a known liar, works for the "Victims of Communism" propaganda outlet, and was commisioned by the BBC to fight China, which he believes is the "Anti-Christ." Moreover, he misrepresents numbers, such as 8% new IUD rates as 80% new IUD rates, to give an idea of forced steralization that doesn't exist. As for XPF? Check out https://this-person-does-not-exist.com/en, then the glasses picture, https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/wp-content/uploads/dt_imgs/20180515184435950_653121197306.jpg, pretty damning. BBC recieved these photos straight from Zenz, a known liar. We know there are camps, either way, but Zenz is a serial liar and you trust him, why?

As for Socialism, I have no genuine clue what you mean by there not being able to be a Socialist state. Marx and Engels both believed in the necessity of a state until global communism is achieved and all property is collectivized, at which point there are no classes and thus no state, only administration. Moreover, it was Socialism in One Country, not Communism, which is necessarily global. Why am I unsurprised that you get basic facts wrong?

You don't support Uyghurs, if you did you'd actually care enough to look into your sources.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

I don’t know, will you ever get tired of US disinformation about Chinese local & federal government’s responses to the CIA-backed terrorist attacks in Xinjiang?

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

Don't know why you're lionizing anti-communist nationalists as the "true China." The KMT were brutal nationalists, just because they preceded the Communists doesn't make siding with far-right nationalists the answer. If the RoC were to capture the PRC, the people fearing China becoming an Empire would have their fears cemented in reality.

[–] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Taiwan/RoC is not currently ruled by the KMT though. (Nor is today's KMT very comparable to what they were many decades ago)

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

The KMT is where the origins of RoC as "true China" come from. Outside of the KMT, there are no claims of the RoC as anything resembling a "legitimate heir to China," only the KMT as the former rulers of the mainland. When someone says RoC is "true China," they are lionizing the KMT and upholding its legitimacy over the Communist Party of China for governance of the mainland.

Calling the RoC "true China" without mentioning the KMT is silly, there's no basis for that claim without upholding the KMT's roots.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Anarchists Not Siding With the Bourgeois Imperial Compradors Challenge (Impossible)

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)

Link

:::spoiler If you don't have the app, it may be hard to view, so here are some screenshots

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Looks like I was dead-on, haha.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Tbh, I was shocked. Much as I'm sympathetic towards China, but I still usually look at it through a lens of realpolitik, like, "Of course they're vying for dominance like everyone else, but at least they're doing it through economic development instead of wars, and it's better if there are two major powers instead of one." Maybe that cynical perspective is more realistic, and maybe XHS users aren't a representative sample of all Chinese people, but still, the fact that so many of the replies were so hopeful and internationalist was genuinely moving to me.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Well, you're correct that XHS isn't the general population of China, it skews middle-high income, so you aren't getting the full picture. However, from what I've read from many younger Chinese political activists and analysts is that as China is now heavily industrialized, there is a sense of moving out of the over-ambitious optimism of the previous generations to a more grounded, educated, realistic optimism that is genuinely more hopeful as a consequence of its grounding.

China has libs. China has problems. China has struggles. But, by virtue of its position and strategy, the people also take on a generally internationalist character. "Let a hundred flowers bloom," Socialism with Chinese Characteristics is a prediction, more than a description. It's a prediction of Socialism with Ugandan Characteristics, Canadian, Brazilian, etc. That gives a sense of their overall attitude, IMO.

[–] Objection@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

As much as we might criticize the whole, "End of History" idea, I feel like the 90's was the last time Americans had anything like that kind of optimism. There was a feeling that we were entering a new age of international cooperation, and although I was only a child that was something I really believed in. But we soon found new conflicts to be embroiled in a the dream has died and was proven to be foolish and naive, and now everyone across the political spectrum is highly cynical.

I'm sure that there are many cynical people in China too, but I can hardly remember the last time I saw someone who wasn't cynical when it comes to politics. Whether or not it's naive, it hits me on an emotional level.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 weeks ago

The good thing about China is that they have a lot of reason to be hopeful, due to many massive improvements in the last century, skyrocketing in the last decade. USians largely still envision 90s China, and are having that image shattered.

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

Damn, they blocked Tor Browser.

I went to Fennec with uBlock on and VPN enabled (privacy reasons), the first thing I see is a download attempt of the 小红书 .apk file. I tap X, and it does it again. Damn, seem like Reddit all over again. 🤦‍♂️

Also, they require a +86 phone number for registration. 🤔 Not a fan of that. Its like Facebook + region locking. Well I guess it make sense... too many TikTok refugees lol.

I had to change to user agent to windows. The comments are pretty chill, unlike some other Chinese sites. I don't see any "MAGA" type comments like you would see on twitter.

Edit: Hmm my webpage only shows like 10 comments, then stops showing... 🤔

[–] alphapuggle@programming.dev 1 points 3 weeks ago

You can register with any number, it just defaults to +86

[–] djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Not a nationalist, I find this a terrifying thought, but 100%. Unless action is actually taken in the U.S., I don't think the West stands a chance. China is already in a much stronger position than I think many Westerners realize, they made tremendous gains during the last Trump presidency. If Trump really does cling to power for the rest of his life, I think we'll see a world where SA, SEA, Africa and parts of Europe are all completely economically reliant on China.

[–] OmegaLemmy@discuss.online 2 points 4 weeks ago

As if it wasn't like that with USA too

I don't think it'll be as bad as mentioned

[–] RagnarokOnline@programming.dev 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I don’t really know anything about China, so I really can’t say.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 weeks ago

It would be a good idea to learn a bit, I think, considering that they will play an increasingly large role on the global stage.

[–] pescetarian@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 weeks ago