this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2025
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Privacy

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Copied from the reddit post:

Hi all, last night, a post from last year from my personal X account suddenly became a topic of discussion here on Reddit. I want to share a few thoughts on this to provide clarity to the community on what is Proton's policy on politics going forward.

First, while the X post was not intended to be a political statement, I can understand how it can be interpreted as such, and it therefore should not have been made. While we will not prohibit all employees from expressing personal political opinions publicly, it is something I will personally avoid in the future. I lean left on some issues, and right on other issues, but it doesn't serve our mission to publicly debate this. It should be obvious, but I will say that it is a false equivalence to say that agreeing with Republicans on one specific issue (antitrust enforcement to protect small companies) is equal to endorsing the entire Republican party platform.

Second, officially Proton must always be politically neutral, and while we may share facts and analysis, our policy going forward will be to share no opinions of a political nature. The line between facts, analysis, and opinions can be blurry at times, but we will seek to better clarify this over time through your feedback and input.

The exception to these rules is on the topics of privacy, security, and freedom. These are necessarily political topics, where influencing public policy to defend these values, often requires engaging politically.

The operations of Proton have always reflected our neutrality. For example, recently we refused pressure to deplatform both Palestinian student groups and Zionist student groups, not because we necessarily agreed with their views, but because we believe more strongly in their right to have their own views.

It is also a legal guarantee under Swiss law, which explicitly prohibits us from assisting foreign governments or agencies, and allows us no discretion to show favoritism as Swiss law and Swiss courts have the final say.

The promise we make is that no matter your politics, you will always be welcome at Proton (subject of course to adherence to our terms and conditions). When it comes to defending your right to privacy, Proton will show no favoritism or bias, and will unconditionally defend it irrespective of the opinions you may hold.

This is because both Proton as a company, and Proton as a community, is highly diverse, with people that hold a wide range of opinions and perspectives. It's important that we not lose sight of nuance. Agreeing/disagreeing with somebody on one point, rarely means you agree/disagree with them on every other point.

I would like to believe that as a community there is more that unites us than divides us, and that privacy and freedom are universal values that we can all agree upon. This continues to be the mission of the non-profit Proton Foundation, and we will strive to carry it out as neutrally as possible.

Going forward, I will be posting via u/andy1011000. Thank you for your feedback and inputs so far, and we look forward to continuing the conversation.

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[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 12 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

So, we just believe that Proton, being buddy-buddy with Trump, isn't going to turn around, and stab us in the backs?

Call me "skeptical".

"Here at Proton, we believe that all life is sacred, thats why we gave the IP addresses of pregnant teens who are planning to get an abortion"

(even compiling the user client yourself won't protect against IP logging, also, external emails arrive at proton servers in plain text)

[–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 5 points 15 hours ago

proton is cia
proton is cia

it's modern crypto AG

[–] AnnaFrankfurter@lemmy.ml 31 points 1 day ago (2 children)

a post from last year from my personal X account suddenly became a topic of discussion here on Reddit.

You mean last month right.

[–] UntitledQuitting@reddthat.com 13 points 23 hours ago

this is the most "i think my userbase are idiots" statement anybody could make. like do you think we dont know how time works andy? fuck you

[–] apotheotic 18 points 1 day ago

Yeah, last year, 2024. Stupid way of intentionally phrasing it.

[–] communism@lemmy.ml 36 points 1 day ago (1 children)

we refused pressure to deplatform both Palestinian student groups and Zionist student groups

Insane equivocation. One of those is a national and ethnic group; the other is a political movement whose pet project is currently on trial for genocide... "we refused pressure to deplatform both Jewish student groups and National Socialist student groups"

[–] SatanClaus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I think that's the entire point of the comment. They are impartial even to evil. They respect privacy.

[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 4 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Impartial to evil is... Well, just evil.

If I walk past a person beheading 3 people who have done nothing wrong, and am able to in fact stop it, and don't... I'm just as fucking evil as the guy doing the beheading.

[–] SatanClaus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 8 hours ago

Indeed. When privacy gets involved it's gets dicey and awkward.

[–] UntitledQuitting@reddthat.com 3 points 23 hours ago

i agree with you, but the company has now invited scrutiny openly by allowing a) andy to make this tweet (personal accout or no) and b) andy to make a follow up statement using the proton reddit account. people have a distaste now, so expect to see everything you say and do to be overanalyised.

[–] halcyonloon@midwest.social 43 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

He should not have @'d Trump. By doing this he is explicitly calling for the incoming administration's attention and signalling he's willing to play ball and bend the knee. Also nice try at obfuscation saying the tweet was from last year, jackass.

Additionally the company account doubled down on his messaging. I think dems suck too, but both sides are not the same. What kind of Swiss crack are they smoking to be able to pretend that the administration that created permanent tax cuts for the ultra wealthy, that I subsidize with my tax dollars, is a friend of the little guy? Or how about the administration that seated the court that bulldozed the right to privacy, while state courts pass censorship laws under the guise of child protections?

The guy is talking out both sides of his face and he's an asshole. While I don't think this is indicative of Proton's services per se I am no longer a paying customer.

[–] DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml 4 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

IDC as long as they are not bending their knees to European countries that the EU hasn't yet kicked out. But mainly I don't care because I'm not American.

[–] leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone 108 points 1 day ago

Trouble is Andy, we now know what you privately think and all the follow up statements in the world can't put that genie back in the bottle.

Proton is an org that exists in an industry whose customers do not trust easily. Publicly aligning with someone utterly untrustable, either as an individual or as a board, has tainted Proton and adversely affected peoples ability to trust. How can we ever know when Proton will find it acceptable again to respond positively to a Trumpian decision or how it might affect our privacy?

[–] Tinkerer@lemmy.ca 39 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If an employee did this and there was this much backlash that said employee would be promptly fired....

I'm not sure about that. There are a lot of right wingers who also use proton (ya know, like the right wing "libertarian" tech-bro types). If they remove Andy from the board, there no doubt Proton is getting labeled as "woke", they lose either way. Honestly, making political comments in the first place, is just a no-win scenario for a privacy-focused mission, which wasn't even that left-right partisan to begin with. He should have just STFU, and everything would be fine.

[–] Templa 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I lean left on some issues, and right on other issues

Holy shit I feel so STUPID for giving $30 a month for this clown. I am so pissed, I hate myself for allowing myself to migrate my stuff all over thinking it would be fine. I am so fucking pissed right now.

[–] Midnight1938@reddthat.com 15 points 1 day ago (4 children)

The American mind cannot grasp liking specific policies of a given party

[–] peppers_ghost@lemmy.ml 6 points 20 hours ago

You need to understand the Republican party is a fascist one. Giving anything to them is a mistake.

[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 3 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Well he did build the Autobahn...

[–] Midnight1938@reddthat.com 1 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

And the allies countries did far worse things in their colonies but whos counting

[–] yozul 1 points 12 hours ago

I'm pretty sure most countries have done worse things than build the Autobahn.

[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 2 points 17 hours ago

that doesn't really help your point seeing as we are talking about a fascist presiding over one of those colonies that was part of the alliance against Hitler.

[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 2 points 17 hours ago

There are no specific policies of the GOP, Trump, or the American Reich that are positive for anyone but oligarchs.

[–] SatanClaus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Whole cognitive dissonance thing is stronger in American than Russia at this point Putin's won. Can't even like a single policy idea that's good and talk about it being good. I'm confused why this is even a big deal and I fucking hate trump. I think half the morons on the Internet forget the way to manipulate trump is to praise him and then you can convince him to do good or bad. Or whatever. Hes worse than Joe Rogan. He just parrots the last person who stroked his ego.

[–] yozul 2 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Oh, Putin's still a loser. The US is just following him into incompetence and cruelty for cruelty's sake. Nobody wins here.

[–] SatanClaus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah. Agreed. I was just bitching lol

[–] yozul 1 points 6 hours ago
[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 3 points 17 hours ago

There are no single policies of the GOP that are "good" for anyone but oligarchs. Reich Wingers aren't your friends. And, if you believe them to be, you'll be one of the firsts in the Night of the Long Knives.

Jezus fucking christ, do people not read history anymore?

[–] arsCynic 12 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Almost without fail, every service that touches creeptocurrencies goes into a decline.

Don't expect Proton to make virtuous ethical choices anytime soon, especially now that Trump joined the cult. Once the greed bug has bitten, making a profit supersedes delivering a good product as the primary objective.

Crypto Cult Science
"Money corrupts; bitcoin corrupts absolutely. Disregarding all of bitcoin's shortcomings, a financial instrument that brings out the worst in people—greed—won't change the world for the better." —https://www.arscyni.cc/file/crypto_cult_science.html

https://fosstodon.org/@stardust/112404108681755769

"Responsible financial diversification requires holding some assets outside of the traditional government controlled banking system. That's why Proton will continue to #HODL a significant proportion of our reserves in #Bitcoin to safeguard our independence." —Proton's response to Bitcoin magazine's: "Retweet if you are #HODLing 🙌"

[–] azalty@jlai.lu 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I mean, I’m all for crypto, but proton posting about holding BTC is cringe

I don’t agree with your first sentence though. There is some logic to using crypto, but solely using it as « haha numbers go up, profit, profit! » is stupid

[–] ArchRecord@lemm.ee 1 points 1 hour ago

There is some logic to using crypto, but solely using it as « haha numbers go up, profit, profit! » is stupid

I heavily agree with this. I see too much blanket anti-crypto sentiment regardless of the possible use case.

When I pay for my VPN, paying in XMR means they can't tie my real-world name and address from my card to my account. That's objectively beneficial compared to my VPN knowing my exact name and address in conjunction with my browsing activity.

If I want to donate to a creative in a different country but they can't use traditional banking rails that connect to my country, how else do I send them money online?

Sure, there's a ton of issues with crypto not just in practice, but even in concept, but as you said, there is some logic to using crypto.

[–] DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml 4 points 23 hours ago

The only crypto to trust is XMR. Its blockchain is very opaque in contrast to Bitcoin.

[–] bingbong@lemmy.dbzer0.com 47 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Why does his username have "88" in binary 🧐

[–] wuphysics87@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The number 8 is lucky to Chinese people. Source: I am Chinese

[–] bishbosh@lemm.ee 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Is it normal to double it up?

[–] SoulKaribou@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 day ago

Yes, doubling characters or numbers is common in Chinese to insist on the item.

At weddings, you will see lots of double happiness characters for example.

"Everybody" is literally the character for people that is repeated, so "yan yan".

[–] w3dd1e@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago

88 was my favorite number for a long time until I found out that Nazis were using it. Bummer. I’m weirdly still sad about it.

I can’t even tell you why it was my favorite number. I think as a kid, I always heard people pick 7 and I just wanted to be different so I leaned into 8s. Idk.

Now, I struggles because I like 8s but I don’t want to be a Nazi. F’ing Nazis ruin everything.

Guess I could just like 8 or 888, haha.

[–] TheHobbyist@lemmy.zip 61 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I'm personally satisfied with the statement, position and reflection on the issue.

It was a fuck-up to publicly respond to donaldtrump in what could be seen as an endorsement. This was acknowledged and remedied.

The no politics stance is probably unavoidable, as mentioned but they should never focus on political parties, but on defending the values, this is what is clarified and that's best. We should accept to support a bill strengthening privacy even if it may come from a political party we generally do not support. Denying our support to such a bill would not strengthen the core value we defend. And as individuals we may still criticize all other activities of such a political party if we disagree with others of their activities.

As a community, I hope we can come together, and resist the temptation of purity tests, and acknowledge that we are all fighting for the same cause, no matter our perspective on other issues. We need the support of everyone.

[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 4 points 17 hours ago

We should accept to support a bill strengthening privacy even if it may come from a political party we generally do not support.

Nobody on the left, afaik, rejects bills out of hand, purely because of which party promulgates it... The problem is, while the American Reich talks a lot about worker's issues, the bills they propose are just oligarch hand outs, cloaked in socialist or populist ideas. ie, The PATRIOT Act was the least patriotic bill ever put forth, but NOBODY was allowed to be unPATRIOTic and vote against it. The left, opposed it. Same with the 1993 Crime Bill, put forth by Dems... Can't be "anti-crime" now can we?

[–] sudoer777@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

we are all fighting for the same cause

Catering to the "Libertarian" neo-Nazi crowd so they buy your product vs wanting to defend minorities against these sort of people is not the same cause

[–] TheHobbyist@lemmy.zip 2 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

You're confusing proton with our stance as a community which cares about privacy.

As a community the question is, will we shun anyone who cares about furthering our rights to privacy, because they have other stances on other issues?

Doing so is only isolating us and prevents us from making our issues heard and gathering more support across the political spectrum.

You can fight alongside someone you don't agree with on other topics. It is not an endorsement for all they stand for.

[–] ubergeek@lemmy.today 4 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

will we shun anyone who cares about furthering our rights to privacy, because they have other stances on other issues?

The Reich Wing doesn't want to further your rights to privacy. Their "other stances" are that some humans are sub-human, and deserve to be extinct.

So, yes, you shun the people who think some humans are sub-human.

[–] TheHobbyist@lemmy.zip 3 points 16 hours ago

Perhaps I need to review my thoughts and either see how I really feel about this topic or find another way to express them.

Either way, you are making a compelling argument and I am not in disagreement.

[–] sudoer777@lemmy.ml 1 points 13 hours ago

I don't value privacy for the sake of privacy, I value it because it's useful for defending against capitalists and fascists who want an unequal society that commits genocides and incarcerates people for immutable characteristics. Fascists don't value privacy for the sake of privacy either, for them it's a tool to further their goals of creating the worst society possible. It comes down to a left vs right issue, I picked one side, and Proton picked to promote the other.

[–] gravityowl@lemm.ee 35 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Full context here for everyone.

Personally, that answer does not seem nearly enough and I believe he should step down if he truly cared about the Proton project as a whole.

[–] Grunt4019@lemm.ee 10 points 1 day ago

Stepping down would be a step in the right direction.

[–] WhatSay@slrpnk.net 21 points 1 day ago

Words are nothing, Andy should step away from proton.