this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2024
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Science Memes

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[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 109 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

As an indigenous Canadian I can confirm this.

Both of my parents were born and raised in the wilderness. I don't mean that they were born in a modern hospital and later raised in the bush. They were born in the 40s in a teepee with the help of traditional midwives.

Dad was a great hunter and trapper and did all the things you could imagine a hunter and gatherer could do.

Mom did the same as well, not as much or as well as dad but good enough to survive on her own or with children. She hunted birds, fished and could bring down gut clean prepare butcher moose, caribou, bear, wolf, lynx and any other large animal if she had to .... when she was a young woman that is. She could also travel, walk, snowshoe, use dog team, paddle a canoe, portage, sail, and survive alone in the bush for weeks or months on her own. In her prime, she was a far better hunter and gatherer than most men I know now including myself.

It only makes sense .... prehistoric hunters and gatherers didn't sit around and relegate women to only do certain things. Everyone no matter what gender had to be capable of doing everything in order to ensure and secure the survival of everyone.

[–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 38 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Early enough in human history we weren't even relying on weapons to hunt as much as the fact that despite not having as high of a top speed as our prey, we could literally chase them until they died of exhaustion, that doesn't seem like gender would make too much of a difference in it. We all get out ran by prey in the short term, and we all have the stamina and speed to catch up.

[–] rockerface@lemm.ee 27 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Stamina and precision are universal human traits, yep. Nobody can toss a rock and then run a marathon like an angry hairless ape

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 8 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Whether that hairless ape was a man or woman also didn't matter.

[–] rockerface@lemm.ee 7 points 2 weeks ago

Aerodynamics change very little, yep

[–] Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Whether that hairless ape was a man or woman also didn't matter.

Yep, and we can all look at verifiable evidence like professional sports and Olympic records to show.....oh, wait a second...

Ok let's forget that indisputable evidence for a sec...We can look at scientific analysis of dug up remains to see what their body types and structures were like an..d...uh.... Huh.

Ok denying all that open-shut evidence, let's study endocrinology and loo...fuck.

[–] cybermass@lemmy.ca 14 points 3 weeks ago

Ayo fellow Canadians here though not indigenous. Thanks for sharing your story!

It makes me sad how overlooked the stories and lessons of the indigenous people are in Canada and the discrimination still present to this day.

[–] infinite_ass@leminal.space 4 points 2 weeks ago

I'll bet she couldn't carry as much meat as a man tho.

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 2 points 2 weeks ago

I think this is just whitewashing history... Even if you look to the ancient Western world, they had goddesses like Artemis

Generally, men fought wars. Like a lion pride - the males are the defenders because they're bigger and stronger. Hunting doesn't require raw strength - it requires diligence, patience, and/or endurance

But they all hunt. Lionesses are known for it, but lions do it too. Complete division of responsibilities is an insect thing

[–] Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 34 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Did women also hunt? Yes.

"As much as men"?

No, beyond any shadow of doubt. Stop trying to white wash over history and verifiable evidence to try and push your personal agenda of stoking culture-wars.

Unless we're talking about tribes where the men took care of the children, the above statement is exaggerated at best and borders on anti-history/anti-anthropology nonsense at worst.

You might as well post that the men spent as much time taking care of the children than the women. And if you can admit that is false for the majority of human history, then you can clearly see how this being false also disqualifies the "women spent as much time hunting" statement.

Again, there is no debate on the fact that many women were great hunters and not just gatherers, but you also can't deny that most of the women took care of the kids.

Looks like I took the bait, didn't I...smh lol

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

What if I were to tell you that the word "some" was implied instead of the "all" that you decided was the implication instead?

[–] Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Edit: understood the misunderstanding. I read the meme as "All", instead of "some".

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[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 3 points 2 weeks ago

Yeaaah... the whole "We were matriarchs!" myth...

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[–] Pistcow@lemm.ee 28 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

So you're saying women are capable of taking out the garbage and recycling?

[–] cybermass@lemmy.ca 15 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I should tell my girlfriend this news!

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[–] clark@midwest.social 15 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I thought everyone knew this. Tasks based on sex were not so prevalent until high cultures formed and people started settling down instead of being nomadic.

[–] Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

You can downvote me and science, but wake me up if you come up with a real argument disputing the entire field of endocrinology, molecular biology, and the rest of biology by extension. Not to mention archeology and anthropology.

At the very simplest way to understand, you do know the difference between testosterone and estrogen, and their biological mechanisms, correct? Rhetorical.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

It's the anthropology that proves the claim.

Tell us more about your opinions on high school biology and how no woman ever hunted as much as men in her culture.

[–] Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Edit: edited out my petty comment directed towards a miscommunication that is now resolved.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

So you agree with the meme, great.

[–] Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

(I thought) the meme implies all women. Oh I understand your other comment now. My comment is only valid if the meme implied all women, and i had no malicious intent.

If reading as "some", then yes I fully agree. I guess it depends who is reading it, and I'm assuming it was written that way by design, to get people like us to fight over a misunderstanding.

Sending good vibes🤙

Edit: (I thought)

[–] Steak@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Men definitely did more hunting then woman in most of human history lmao you are insane

[–] drake@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] Steak@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Men are faster and stronger. Men don't spend a good portion of their lives growing children and breastfeeding them. So more free time to hunt. Men's eyesight is literally better at picking up motion than woman's and men have better reflex's and hand eye coordination. Men outperform woman in almost all aspents of what it takes to be a great hunter back in the early human days.

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[–] Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Tasks based on sex were not so prevalent until high cultures formed...

Like being pregnant and giving birth (as many times as possible), breastfeeding, and raising those same infants while the men are doing tasks that are unfeasible for pregnant breastfeeding women taking care of infants?, like hunting, building shelters and going to war, among other things? (Which some women did, but the majority did not)

Oh, ya ya, for sure. A lot of people in this thread seem to be sharing the same anti-anthropology delusion. Which is very concerning but not surprising in the age of misinformation. More culture-war BS.

[–] drake@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Anthropology tends to support the fact that women and men pretty much all had equal share of pretty much every task in the palaeolithic and neolithic eras.

You shouldn’t just reject scientific advances because it goes against what you learned at school. What you learned was wrong. Science adapts based on new evidence. You can too.

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[–] BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 13 points 2 weeks ago

That's why when you see documentaries about tribes that had little to no contact to the outside world, women are often hunting and do the heavy lifting and men are at home raising kids and taking care of the village while the women are out there. I mean i haven't seen it, but according to this one weird paper they must exist.

[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 10 points 2 weeks ago

The only thing that might predispose women is when they get pregnant. Most forms of hunting don't require excessive strength. This is not speculation, prehistoric people do not give a shit about your value system or how it imposes itself on science. Animals in animal world be animals.

[–] SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz 10 points 3 weeks ago

THIS IS A GROUP EFFORT, PEOPLE!

[–] uis@lemm.ee 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

No, you don't understand, this is all communist propaganda! /j

[–] Emmie@lemm.ee 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

My mom would puke at these, even I feel some nausea. It just was such a horrible time to be alive. I wouldn’t wish these times on my worst enemy

[–] Jean_le_Flambeur@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Would be a nice plot twist, but do you habe any sources for your claim? If this is real I would like to know more

[–] fossilesque@mander.xyz 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10306201/

This paper has a lot of back and forth. Another commenter posted a rebuttal.

[–] Murvel@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Don't spread it around. It's a complete fraud of a paper for all we know. Just the fact that it has convincing rebuttals is enough to make you consider it irrelevant.

[–] fossilesque@mander.xyz 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

It's not a fraud. Science isn't black and white. Discussing things is a good thing. It's still peer reviewed and not retracted in a decent journal. Not everyone dismisses it. The authors have responded to some of the criticisms by publishing additional information in the linked "correction" (functions like an attachment added later). Science is a conversation.

[–] Murvel@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago

No, you're thinking of philosophy. Philosophy is a discussion. Science is a process. Just the fact that they are being accused of being misleading and outright falsyfyiing evidence is enough to simply ignore their purported results until they can produce a paper that fixes all those problems.

It's not a discussion whether we can agree on something. The evidence should do the only talking.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 8 points 3 weeks ago

Eıŋtcint Siþıėnz a-ſ hæd ƿimin æz worıyṙz. T inu̇f v æn ekſtent ðæt ðı muıt bı ð beıſiſ f ð Æmėzȯn worıyṙz v ledjend.

spoilerAncient Scythians also had women as warriors. To enough of an extent that they might be the basis for the Amazon warriors of legend.

[–] thefartographer@lemm.ee 7 points 3 weeks ago

Oh yeah? Then why am I always angry at everyone all the time?!

Boom. Scienced!

\s

[–] Jumpingspiderman@reddthat.com 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I grew up in Da Yoop. In my high school, our head cheer leader was an expert bow hunter. This "discovery" is not in any way a surprise to me.

[–] Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 5 points 2 weeks ago

It's echo-chamber, culture-war nonsense. There's a reason men are the vast majority of physical jobs, and it's not because anyone is stopping qualified women from working.

Just as an example, in my personal experience, we rarely received women's applications to work warehouse or roofing, and even less who met the qualifications of being able to pick up minimum 50lbs (not that heavy, approximately 2x 24's of beer) on their own.

I'd also like to point out that, while I'm not trying to minimize her impressive achievements, your friend is from modern society, not ancient. She had the privilege of going to school, being a cheerleader and having free time, instead of cranking out babies in the ancient wilderness.

[–] FarFarAway@startrek.website 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

My SO has a theory that if the group of people lived in a harsh environment, ie. having to work for what you had with no guarantee of food or safety, etc, it was common for women to work just as much as men. Such a society needed all hands on deck, so to speak. But, when we start becoming "civilized", and things started getting made for us, (as opposed to an individual making it themselves.) Women and men start having diverging roles. Essentially, there's just not enough work, so womens role turns into raising the babies, to fill the time. Eventually, for whatever reason, "civilized" society just forgot about the hard times and assumes women have always been there just to raise babies.

Disclaimer: This is based on absolutely nothing. Maybe some random information that explain that women did "men" jobs too, once. Idk.

[–] clark@midwest.social 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

It's called the neolithic revolution.

[–] FarFarAway@startrek.website 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Crap. They just took it from somewhere else and passed it off as their own. Jerk.

Edit: But then why is this even being debated?

[–] Juice@midwest.social 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] Slovene@feddit.nl 1 points 2 weeks ago
[–] Fleur_@lemm.ee 1 points 3 weeks ago

Can't we just, you know, ask hunter gatherers how they do it?