this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2024

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transgender

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An admin of this instance, Nutomic, is a transphobe and has no right to be able to ban trans people from this community. (lemmy.ml)

submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by marcie@lemmy.ml to c/transgender@lemmy.ml

63 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I'm calling for https://lemmy.ml/u/Beaver@lemmy.ca, the most prolific user of the transgender comm here on lemmy.ml, to be immediately unbanned and nutomic to be removed as admin. It is good and correct to leak the DMs of transphobes.

@dessalines@lemmy.ml @JoeBidet@lemmy.ml @cypherphunks

edit: you can find more info from kristinas post here and beavers post here

edit 2: proof, also beaver was banned from the whole instance modlong

edit 3: For trans people looking for a safer instance, I suggest Hexbear. They have a very active trans user base and are extremely supportive.

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[–] Diva@lemmy.ml 41 points 3 months ago (1 children)

God damn, I agree with Marcie.

Nutomic should self-crit and step back

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 months ago

💖

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 32 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Oh god … this happened?!

non-trans person sharing their perhaps invalid and uninformed opinions

As someone who was calling for easing up on dogpiling on nutomic in that thread, banning beaver here, and the instance, is IMO not ok, at all.

Nutomic, you were probably pissed off about the leaking, I think most would get that. But as an admin here and a core dev, I think you have to do way way better than use your admin rights here as a weapon against someone you no longer like and who posted on another instance. If you think there’s a situation to sort out, it’s gotta be done more openly than this.

Rule 1 of this instance (against transphobia) probably applies.

No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.

As in, this moderation action was likely against instance rules. How else is a minority community to combat their oppressors than post about what ever communication they receive? To punish them for that communication however inappropriate it would have been from a less oppressed person is therefore punishing them and then coming under rule 1.

There were plenty of other ways to handle this. Banning a user looks a lot like petty and unreliable admin-ing. Especially when the issue of whether you are a transphobe is on the table and instead of addressing that you’ve chosen use your power against the transgender community here.

I get that leaking personal chats is always a dodgy thing, but in this case, I really hope the lemmy ml admins sort this out.

It’s really bad to weaponise admin powers against an oppressed minority. Certainly makes me question my membership here and the admins values. And is a particularly bad look for an instance many are criticising for having power crazy admins, most of which is red scare crap but totally justified in this case I suspect.

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Hexbear is 100% the safest for trans people on the fediverse, I definitely suggest heading there if you want a safer place. Its admin'd by a lot of trans people and has an extremely active trans community with thousands of comments and messages per day

I'm on lemmy.ml because I like checking all trans spaces on the fediverse, but obviously with a transphobe in charge that makes that harder. Of course, that also means wading through a lot of horseshit from transphobic trolls, which I'm hoping to help with

[–] aleph@lemm.ee 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I swear, petty and vindictive banning is far worse on Lemmy than it ever was on Reddit, and particularly on ML instances.

If I were to indulge in a bit of armchair psychology, I'd say it is a side effect of venerating authoritarianism.

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Maybe it's worse on ML instances. I honestly would start explaining it by looking at how much red-scare crap they go through.

But generally, I think you're right ... I've seen ban-happy mods too, and not on ML instances.

I'd say it's people learning how to manage decentralisation/federation. It gives people a greater sense of ownership and power and so you get some power tripping and a new source of drama and identity politics (based on instances). Kinda sad actually.

[–] aleph@lemm.ee 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Fair point -- having power decentralized certainly makes it more common for individual actors to act unilaterally in this way. However, in my experience the most egregious examples have been users being banned from Lemmy.ml for simply expressing a contrary opinion in a non-aggressive manner.

For a community that is so actively political, the tolerance for an open exchange of views is surprisingly low.

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

For a community that is so actively political, the tolerance for an open exchange of views is surprisingly low.

I'm not over much of that activity, but I think the more accurate way to think about it is that they're actively communist, and actively critical of the west and its imperialism/captialism. So they're coming from a pretty different perspective than middle/centrist westerners and find some of the presumptions/beliefs of westerners outright awful lies. Whatever the truth is, they're not trying to run a perfectly open forum to try to convince everyone of communism, when it comes to politics that is. So anything that starts with a critical view of China is immediately viewed suspiciously and likely to get moderated (depending I'd say). I understand how many would find that problematically censorial. Thing is though that they hold a minority position that tends to piss a lot of people off, so a good amount of defensiveness is just a natural consquence I'd say. In my experience, the worst part about their communist beliefs have been all of the loud anti-communists they've triggered.

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[–] BuddyTheBeefalo@lemmy.ml 31 points 3 months ago (1 children)

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 20 points 3 months ago

🫡

[–] Guntrigger@sopuli.xyz 29 points 3 months ago

How on earth is "Leaked private messages" a reason for banning. Absolutely an abuse of power and Streisand Effect is doing it's thing.

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 22 points 3 months ago (2 children)

@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone @CARCOSA@hexbear.net @kristina@hexbear.net @ruud@lemmy.world @remington@beehaw.org @poVoq@slrpnk.net

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

@smorks@lemmy.ca @otter@lemmy.ca

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

@TheDude@sh.itjust.works @imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works @kersploosh@sh.itjust.works

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

@JoeBidet@lemmy.ml @dessalines@lemmy.ml

(someone mentioned to me that posts dont ping properly, sorry if i pinged twice)

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 months ago

@sunaurus@lemm.ee @EllaSpiggins@lemm.ee

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 3 months ago

Thanks. Dealt with on our end

[–] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 19 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I'm just an occasional lurker here so I'm pretty out of the loop, but wouldn't it make more sense to just migrate to an instance without an openly transphobic admin? Isn't being able to do that supposed to be one of the big advantages of a federated service?

[–] Diva@lemmy.ml 11 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

but wouldn’t it make more sense to just migrate to an instance without an openly transphobic admin

That's really just too passive for me at least, much prefer to occupy a space and make the transphobes leave.

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[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Apologies, I just woke and can’t quite sort all the details. But I’m on the side of anyone who promotes acceptance. I’m against anyone who is a bigot. I support safe and welcoming communities.

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 months ago

good vibe 💗

[–] gruf@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

man "leaked private messages" is such a weak fucking excuse in the face of transphobia. @nutomic@lemmy.ml you realize you're just alienating a huge fucking number of comrades? not just trans people, but all those that rightfully stand with us too.

edit: nutomic you absolutely can come back from this if you don't double down. accept your shit, and work on it. and you know what that would be great to see, there's not enough of that in the world.

if not then @dessalines@lemmy.ml and other core devs, i think you have a tough decision to make. i absolutely do not envy you. though do keep in mind that handling this correctly will solidify even tighter community support behind the Lemmy project.

we need more good comrades behind ActivityPub development :p

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 months ago

Agreeing with you here, I’m wondering if this can spawn a broader project to try to alter the relationship between the admins, mods and users.

More and better feedback loops and grassroots organisation and less “admins and mods own this, take it or leave it” culture.

In the end, I think this comes down to poor admin/mod practice and poor community leadership where many of the users here would just like to make sure things are better.

[–] 4am@lemm.ee 15 points 3 months ago (5 children)

Not that I disagree with anything in this post but I would like to point out that Nutomic is, IIRC, the literal creator and dev of Lemmy itself.

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 24 points 3 months ago (1 children)

afaik dessalines is the creator, nutomic is a co-creator and second largest contributor

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Though to be fair, there's a good chance that your pleas are not heeded here and that the admins do close ranks (I'm hoping some form of correction occurs, becuase it's pretty obviously a petty and personal ban). Point being, you and this community may want to (if you/they aren't already) think about what you want to do should they ignore you here.

Also, in the proof you provided ... it's important to note that they banned beaver from the whole instance. You'll see bans from a whole bunch of communities as well as a general in the modlog: https://lemmy.ml/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=9782557

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 months ago

yeah, i'll edit that in

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 9 points 3 months ago

They're a core dev, yes, but not the creator AFAIU, that's dessalines who started the project. Nutomic joined pretty early though and is a major contributor to the project yes. I think they've been happy to counter each other's behaviour whenever it made sense in the past.

[–] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 9 points 3 months ago

He can be the president dude. If you're a Transphobe little bitch, you deserve what's coming to you.

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[–] lud@lemm.ee 12 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I suggest lemm.ee. Extremely chill, no politics (on an instance level anyways), few blocked instances except the troll ones, stable, ^also ^no ^stupid ^hexbear ^emojis.

It's just great.

[–] Fuzzy_Red_Panda@lemm.ee 7 points 3 months ago

+1 for lemm.ee. The person who runs that instance also seems really cool and I donate monthly.

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[–] TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 11 points 3 months ago (7 children)

Honestly, just get out of .Ml and let it fade the way hexbear has

[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 25 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Hexbear hasn't really faded, their trans megathread hits 2-3k comments regularly, so it is very relevant to trans affairs on lemmy. They have an extremely active trans community and are very supportive of them, going so far as defederating from problematic instances that have a lot of people that harass trans people on them.

Its a more strict community that doesn't fuck with the wider fediverse on purpose, they care about their queer users. And 66% of hexbear is queer, by the way, and about half are trans.

[–] Ambii@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 months ago

Fading away is when they're still the big lemmy boogyman and are one of the most active instances

[–] Hextubewontallowme@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 months ago

It is not them who should fade away

It is ye

Yer ilk has single-handedly redditized the spirit of true Lemmy, you {redacted}, may you burn in hell!

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[–] Album@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 months ago (5 children)

You understand what the ml in lemmy.ml stands for right? You're enemies by ideology.

The admins of other instances can't help you stop tagging random ppl.

Get off lemmy.ml. that's your solution.

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 31 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

The first rule of lemmy . ml:

Bigotry, transphobia, racism, nationalism, and chauvinism are not allowed.

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[–] 4am@lemm.ee 31 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Found the guy who still believes the Nazis were socialists

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[–] marcie@lemmy.ml 23 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

You understand what the ml in lemmy.ml stands for right? You’re enemies by ideology.

I'm an ml 😎

The admins of other instances can’t help you stop tagging random ppl.

They can defed, which I wholly suggest if nutomic isn't removed.

[–] Album@lemmy.ca 11 points 3 months ago

I think everyone should defed from ml without this happening lol.

[–] Album@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Lol my benign posts are being deleted... Gg

[–] Diva@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 months ago

Literally 1984

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[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You're enemies by ideology

As Marx and Lenin said in Chapter 7 of "Marxu no Leninu kotaku tokadimasai": "uwu uwu uwu uwu uwu uwu uwu uwu transphobia is based uwu uwu uwu uwu uwu uwu"

Just in case, /s

[–] Edie@lemmy.ml 9 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

internet-delenda-est what did I just read??

[–] volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 6 points 3 months ago

I'm really sorry

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