Philosopher
this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2024
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Asklemmy
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"Look at this asshole, learning how the world works. MAKE HIM SERVE COFFEE WITH THE REST OF THEM"
But why?
Postdoc
Teachers and social workers
Teachers for sure. Highly educated people providing a service that's absolutely crucial for everybody and they're paid like shit even before you consider the number of out-of-work hours they end up working.
That may only be western teachers. One of my family has been living in Sweden and teaching yr5 (only) for about 22 years. I'm pretty sure
- the state pays for supplies, but I know she doesn't
- she pretty much has the lesson plan set, with some evolution each year
- swedish kids aren't total assholes as they have support for some of the big causes of assholish kids (unaddressed learning issues)
- she's good to retire in three years. Already has a little boat!
She got her ticket in Canada and bounced around a bit until she landed this gig. Couldn't be happier for her.
Unfortunately not a more universal experience :( here in the UK teachers are treated like crap
It's the worst of all angles... Professions where the professional loves the work and wants to do the work no matter what get exploited more than most AND with public school teachers, they're stuck with taxpayer decided budgets....
As far as America goes: I WANT EVERYTHING AND I DON'T WANT TO PAY TAXES FOR IT!
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Around here (Brazil), psychologists come to mind. The degree alone is worth jack shit, healthcare plans will usually pay lunch money per 1h session 3 months after said session, advertising psy services super regulated, patients have a significant chance of ghosting you, the federal council is great at fucking up graduates and workers, rather than protecting them, and most people would rather do any sort of trendy stupid holistic shit like familiar constellation, NLP, reiki and whatnot.
Source: had a gf with said degree and a postgrad in neuropsychology. Of her graduating class of 8, only 1 found "success" so to speak.
That's an interesting one. As a psychotherapist from Germany I can say we're definitely not low paid, but it is much less than other academic professions, and especially in relation to the time it takes to get qualified (roughly 10 years) and the cost of approbation itself (varies from 30k-160k, and that's in a country where education usually is free) it's really not a good fit for someone who is very financially motivated. (Ironically because of the high upfront cost the job tends to attract people from well endowed backgrounds though.)
I think like in many helping professions we have a majority of very idealistic people who don't negotiate very well. Employers get away with way too much because refusal at our side at first only ever hurts the patients, so we kinda keep up with it. Maybe something similar is happening in the professions that are in my mind actually the most underpaid for their time, and that's nursing and care work of all sorts.
I think like in many helping professions we have a majority of very idealistic people who don't negotiate very well.
Maybe that's exactly what we need: A training course for helping professions that teaches them to ruthlessly negotiate fair terms against capitalists.
Ironically, behind all this is a misconception that we're actually constantly working on with our patients. The truth is that the clinics would function better and we could offer better therapy if, for example, we weren't so overworked and enough staff were employed. But in order to achieve this, we would have to make decisions again and again in specific cases, which are less pleasant for patients in the short term. Specifically: saying no to our employers more often, strikes, and in the worst case resignation. Sensible in the long term, unpleasant in the short term. For our patients. And that's the crux of it.
Unfortunately it is always easier to discover those mistakes in the thinking of others. I have met dozens of colleagues who avoid fighting for better working conditions for precisely these reasons (while advising their patients to avoid this error in particular). And clinics of course know this and take advantage of it.
So better negotiation skills are really only party of the solution (although also very important). I think in the long term we need better education and more focus on socialist ideas, specifically on how and why employee rights (and the ability to self-care) are such an integral requirement to a job well done.
Fantastic thought-provoking points here. You're right, that's something I had kinda forgotten about when I wrote before:
Helping-professionals are (ideally) in those professions to help people, so their employers essentially hold patients/clients/students up as shields.
You're right, to change things would require a cultural shift that sees providers as "people" rather than "services." But generally it would be an extremely difficult PR war to sell to the people who require such services.
The soulless bosses are basically comic book villains: They know heroes will put themselves at considerable risk for the greater good, but won't risk the harming of innocents...
...so the greedy ownership class hides behind those innocents and, what's worse, trains them to accept such a low standard that any action that would drop that standard would turn the peoples' anger against the heroes who already sacrifice so much to help them.
I hate not knowing what to do past understanding what's so wrong. :(
Pilots. It's been some time since I read about it. I read some of the small puddle jumper pilots make so little they qualify for SNAP. Sure flying the big boys makes a bunch of money though.
This has changed quite a lot. Starting pay at regional airlines varies, but it is close to $100,000/year now.
This all happened right after the pandemic. Airlines did a lot of early retirements because nobody knew how long the industry would be in the dumps. As it turns out, there was a ton of pent up travel demand, so not only did airlines have to attract people to replace the retired pilots, but also for growth.
You're right, though. It used to be closer to $20,000/year back in 2005, and only went up slightly over the 15 year period leading up to the pandemic.
Canadian FAs/Stews are under the poverty line due to the "no go no dough" employment rules. Maaaassive scam by the airlines.
Not the lowest, for sure, but I'm going to put my hat in for auto technicians. Master techs can make over $100K in southern New England but the cost of tools can easily rival college tuition by the time you're a master tech. Everything except proprietary equipment and the car lift needs to be bought by the technician, which can cost thousands of dollars. Health insurance is prohibitively expensive, the flat rate pay system means you only get paid when you complete jobs, and it's an ergonomic nightmare because you're picking up heavy objects and working in cramped areas all day.
As someone who whose fiance was a mechanic until last year, I think it's really disingenuous to hear so many people say that the trades are your fast track to making money. Very little of that $150/ hr that you pay goes to the person working on your car. For every lift the shop has they're taking 80% or more off the top of that $150/ hr, and if the job takes longer than expected the mechanic doesn't make any more money. In fact they're losing money because they're stuck figuring out a solution instead of moving on to the next car.
And don't even get me started on tool loans. It's straight up worse than student loans because they're classified as personal loans. My student loans all hover around 5% interest, but right now personal loans go up to 18% depending on the term. The only saving grace I can think of is that they're usually dischargeable in bankruptcy.
I really could go on all day about how broken it all is because I've lived it secondhand for a while now, and now that I'm trying to gain more of these skills for my classic motorcycle hobby it's all so obvious. Not sure if the other trades like plumbing and welding have the same "take out loans to pay for tools to make money to pay for the loans, then learn more skills within the trade to make more money, and then take out more loans for tools to do the more advanced work" cycle but no one ever mentions this when they talk about how this kind of work is so lucrative.
Don't get me wrong, college is really badly overpriced in the US, but the trades absolutely can be just as expensive once you've made it your career. And I don't want to dissuade people from considering it as a career, either, but it's a monetary risk that you need to really sit down and calculate before you take the plunge, just like college.
Teachers in the US. Hands down.
Being an officer in some places.
Biology, unless you go into health related stuff.
In Australia any lab technician positions 4 year degree and start at AUD$65k, Max out at $80k or so. Equivalent engineering degrees max out at $120k for plebs.
Is a lab tech programme as suicidally crazy as a BEng?