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I think this is a bit disingenuous. There’s no customer interaction in these panels.
So waterfall would be:
Customer says they want to go to Mars.
You spend years building a rocket capable of going to Mars, draining all the company budget in the process.
Customer then clarifies they actually meant they wanted to go to Mars, Pennsylvania, USA - not the planet!
This is waterfall method propaganda! It never works out this smoothly. They probably forgot important requirements like: the astronauts need to be alive on Mars.
2 years later: It's now up to the lawyers to figure out if it's the rocket that doesn't meet agreed requirements or if it's on the customer for not giving proper requirements.
Or the funders get bored of waiting after ten years of "no Mars yet" and cancel the project, leaving you with a half finished rocket.
Actual real world right now giant rockets include
One that is being built under waterfall methodology. It has been being built for several years. That's the Blue Origin New Glen heavy lift reusable rocket
One that is being developed under an agile methodology, it flew as a subscale lander to test their engine and flight control, it has flown four full test flights, improving on each. That's SpaceX's Starship
We are yet to see either launch a payload to orbit
How was appollo programme planned?
It was outsourced to the guy who ran Nazi concentration camps to build ballistic missiles to bomb London with.
This is what I came to the comment section for.
If like me you're not a pro, it seems to literally just mean linear phases, so yeah, any nonlinearity would cause problems.
What is the methodology called where you:
Plan to go to orbit, blow up seconds into the flight, and declare it a success.
Plan to refuel in orbit, make it minutes before the rocket brakes. Fire the FTS, it fails, the rocket blows up a minute later und declare it a successful test of the FTS.
Argue to NASA that you are not the limiting factor to the moon mission planed for the end of the year, despite delivering none of the milestones.
FTS = flight termination system
Getting to space. Fuck Musk, but SpaceX is doing great work.
This is the Kerbal methodology.
Sounds a bit like the S&M methodology. SpaceX & Musk
I take it you missed the recent fourth integrated flight test, in which the ship soft landed on the ocean near Australia as planned and the booster soft landed on the ocean near the launch site as planned
Their failure in that flight was expected. They hoped thermal tiles sealing the hinge for the aerodynamic surfaces would seal those against plasma during reentry. They didn't. Had they, it would have been much cheaper than sealing those more thoroughly. The ship landed regardless of that failure
Disliking Musk is fair, but SpaceX is doing good stuff
It's a feature, not a bug
Edgy meme: agile bad
NASA: "Yep, we use agile" https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20160006387/downloads/20160006387.pdf?attachment=true
Going to the moon as a step towards going to Mars is so eminently correct that this comic should actually be Agile propaganda
NASA also built the space shuttle, which was a plane that couldn't fly by itself (as it was supposed to), was slower to turn around and more expensive than older equivalent technologies, and blew up all the astronauts 1.5% of the time.
I mean, they're great at other things - who else could have made the JWST work flawlessly with one opportunity - but they're a definite source of hype, and they do something very particular and specialised. Beware endorsements.
Edit: Fuck you, I'm right. Keep 'em coming.
I don't even care about Agile either way. This just isn't a good argument for it.
NASA also successfully flew a helicopter on Mars first try.
Yep. They're probably better than anyone at making a complex system with literal moving parts that works 100% of the time, the first time. On a nearly unlimited budget, with a decades-long schedule. In an institution and culture that's now a been around a lifetime, staffed with top-notch people.
That's all perfect for what NASA does, but I wouldn't recommend a management system that NASA uses to just anyone, just 'cause "da astronauts" use it. Not any more than I'd recommend drinking your own distilled piss to anyone.
I don't really have an opinion on Agile, even, I just have a problem with selling it this way.
That’s fair enough. The common misconception is that waterfall is great for space missions, when in reality NASA is doing agile.
I agree that not everybody is NASA, so what works for them doesn’t necessarily work for everyone.
I can see you're frustrated by the downvotes and pushback you've received. It's understandable to feel defensive when your viewpoint isn't well-received. I appreciate you sharing your perspective, even if it goes against the majority opinion here.
Your points about the space shuttle program's challenges are valid and worth discussing. It's important to note the timeframes involved though. The shuttle was developed in the 1970s, well before agile methodologies emerged in the 1990s and 2000s.
Interestingly, one could argue that NASA may have used agile-like practices in the space shuttle program, even if they weren't labeled as such at the time. However, I did a quick search and couldn't find much concrete evidence to support this idea. It's an intriguing area that might merit further research.
Regarding modern agile approaches, while no method is perfect, many organizations have found them helpful for improving flexibility and delivering value incrementally. NASA's recent use of agile for certain projects shows they're open to evolving their methods.
I'm curious to hear more about your thoughts on software development approaches for complex engineering projects. What do you see as the pros and cons of different methodologies? Your insights could add a lot to this discussion.
I can see you’re frustrated by the downvotes and pushback you’ve received. It’s understandable to feel defensive when your viewpoint isn’t well-received. I appreciate you sharing your perspective, even if it goes against the majority opinion here.
Thanks for the kind words. FWIW I'm doing fine, this feels like a worthy fight. I know a bad appeal to authority when I see one.
Interestingly, one could argue that NASA may have used agile-like practices in the space shuttle program, even if they weren’t labeled as such at the time. However, I did a quick search and couldn’t find much concrete evidence to support this idea. It’s an intriguing area that might merit further research.
There's somebody else in the thread talking about the Apollo missions and Agile. Uhh, here, because I don't know if federated comment links are supported yet. There's no source for that already provided, though.
What do you see as the pros and cons of different methodologies? Your insights could add a lot to this discussion.
Honestly no. Sorry to undercut you a bit, but I'm not going to be the Dunning-Kruger guy. I know that I don't know project management.
I appreciate your candor about not wanting to speak on topics outside your expertise. That's commendable. I wonder if we can still talk with the understanding that we may not know it all. I truly believe curiosity is able to sidestep many of the problems related with ignorance.
You're right to be cautious about appeals to authority. My intention wasn't to suggest NASA's use of Agile validates it universally, but rather to counter the OP comic's implication that Agile is inherently incapable of achieving significant goals like space exploration.
Regarding Agile-like practices in earlier NASA projects, you're correct that concrete evidence is limited. However, we can analyze their approaches through the lens of Agile principles. Scrum, for instance, aims to foster characteristics found in high-performing teams: clear goals, information saturation, rapid feedback loops, adaptability to changing requirements, and effective collaboration. These elements aren't exclusive to Scrum or even to modern Agile methodologies. The key is recognizing that effective project management often naturally gravitates towards these principles, whether formally adopting Agile or not.
It's an interesting area for further research: have complex engineering projects historically incorporated elements we now associate with Agile? If so, how?
Your skepticism is valuable in pushing for a more nuanced understanding of project management across different domains.
If the person who drew that comic understood anything about complex systems or why agile works when used properly, it could make sense. But it doesn't.
Cowboy Programming:
PO: Hey we want to go to Mars
- 3 weeks of silence -
Developer: Hey I'm there, where are you?
This is the way.
Assuming you know the developer isn't a shitbird, because you're the developer. If this was Investor Humor the idea would be less popular.
Firecracker looks proud. Really brightens my night.
The creator does not know Scrum, it's about transparency and not intransparency.
Also Kanban, Scrum and Lean Development are all agile development.
Like yes, but undone armpits generate more wealth than the rocket to Mars
Yeah, I remember the time i had a project manager who’d come over from the construction industry, used construction industry metaphors, and thought everything would be the same.
Guess usual (state funded) rocket building is Kanban. Space X and BlueOrigin & co are Agile, except that one that was Lean.