It's gotta be a mix of both. If there aren't frivolous side tasks I can do, a game feels empty to me, but without a primary set of goals, it feels aimless. Games that combine the two are my white whale. I want to defeat the big evil with fishing minigames and trading quests.
this post was submitted on 15 Jul 2023
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I agree, but there is definitely a limit to the degree of frivolous side quests. I'm playing TotK here and there, and some of the quests/objectives are basically punishment. I liked the koroks in BotW, but a lot of the new ones can fuck right off.
I too am enjoying AC Valhalla, lol.
ah man, ive given up on AC a while back, is Valhalla worth the time? I was under the impression they were all mostly the same with a different coat of paint
I'd say there's roughly two different AC "vibes": Pre-Origins and Post-Origins (Origins is the Egypt one). Pre-Egypt is still very assasin focused. While you can bruteforce your way through, it's very clearly not the intended way, and it's a lot harder than doing the stealth stuff. Post-Egypt is far more openworld, choice focussed. You can still play the Assassin, but because they need to allow many different gameplay styles (including ramboing in), levels/areas aren't quite as tightly designed for cool assassin type stuff.
Both versions are good in their own right, but it's really important to come in with the right expectations. Both sets are somewhat similar to other games in their group, with little switch ups.
Basically it depends on what your issue was with AC. Even if they are a little same-y, the gameplay is (can) be very fun, and as a history fan, there's simply no other franchise that's tackled so many different eras in such an immersive way.
Finally, my purely subjective recommendations for a "new-comer" would be:
- The game whose era interests you most
- If you like openworld action RPGs, Odyssey. A fun filled journey with a lot of worthwhile things to do
- If you want a solid assassin game, Syndicate. At least from a gameplay and engine perspective, it perfected the formula
It's worth the time to me, but I can definitely understand why others might not feel the same. Personally, I don't love the Viking "honour and glory" theme but I do like the zany "mystery" side quests and the overall game structure. As for whether it's a rinse-and-repeat of previous games... yeah, it is, in most meaningful ways. Since Origins, they've relied on a lot of the same mechanisms, but that's not a deal breaker to me. I like (modern) AC because of the visual polish and atmosphere, not necessarily unique gameplay. Odyssey was my favourite of the "new" gen of AC games, and I think Valhalla made a lot of tangible improvements to the mechanics and gameplay loops since that title.
I love good stories. For me, the atmosphere and plot are vital. It feels like after work I just don't have enough time and mental capacity to put a lot of effort in a video game, therefore I avoid things like Minecraft or the whole survival genre, even though I used to enjoy that kind of stuff when I was a teenager.
I feel you on the after-work blues. For me, it pushes me towards arcadey games cause I don't have the energy to invest in a good story.
I most like sandbox games that allow me to do the journey my way. I very rarely do anything the optimal way.
Often if I am playing a linear game people will get frustrated with my because I'll pass on a better weapon because I like the one I currently have. They say take that sword it's better but I'm not playing the game to reach the end. I don't care if a better weapon makes it easier I want a cool sword that fits my playstyle and that I have fun using.
I almost exclusively play games where I can set my own goals, or do my own thing, or experiment. I also gravitate towards immersive games. I assume that means I'm more intrinsic?
I really don't like games that treat leveling as an obstacle to the "real game.". Makes it seem pointless.
I actually enjoy a bit of both! There's definitely pros and cons to both types, and which I feel like playing varies according to my mood, energy levels, and what else I've played recently. Sometimes I want to be moving towards a destination and reward, other times I just want to wander around and do whatever.
I’m currently playing x4 which is giving me a small dose of both. Overwhelmingly the game is more “make your own fun” but there are some small plot lines that reveal the story of some of the factions that I’ve been slow rolling as I build my empire.
"Extrinsically motivated" games I like: I'll play it once, beat it, play a bit of post game, drop it.
"Intrinsically motivated" games I like: make my own stupid-ass goal, spend dozens and dozens of hours on it, finally do the stupid thing, progressed 1% further through the game, get bored, drop it, but then I pick it up again thinking about doing another stupid-ass thing.
any game with a story
Minecraft, Terraria, Factorio, Satisfactory, Rimworld, Starbound...
I’m extrinsically motivated, but my definition of “extrinsic” is pretty loose. I’ll do things that aren’t necessary to beat the game (I don’t even need the game to be “beatable”). As long as I’m finishing something and getting a reward for it, I’m content.
I’m having a great time doing side content in Tears of the Kingdom: completing as many shrines and side quests as I can, hoarding materials for armor upgrades, etc. Those are optional objectives that you can truly complete. However, I don’t spend much time experimenting with Ultrahand.
Similarly in Minecraft, I liked accumulating resources in survival mode, but I bounced off of creative mode.
EDIT: apparently my Lemmy app went haywire and posted this about 8 times. Very sorry.
I'm think i'm the same as you. I don't mind if a game is open world, sometimes i come back and do more in that open world, but i like the game to guide me throught that world with a maybe exiting story or clearly build level paths that are linear, that are designed to be done in a exiting way. I don't want to be creative in games.
The wanting an open world that guides you is exactly why I don't like Bethesda games. I played Oblivion way back in the day, I played for like 15 or 20 hours, and once I got out of the prison. Never touched the main story. I competed in this tournament in this big city, I did all this stuff, and just was feeling like, I shouldn't be able to do this stuff yet. The tipping point for me was going into an oblivion portal, I hadn't gotten to any point in the game that actually mentioned them or what they were, and while it was cool being in this hell scape type place with these cool looking enemies, I was like, I'm still technically at the beginning of the game. I should be getting massacred right now, and it just made me not want to play it anymore.
Everyone is different. I think the freedom to do that is better than being arbitrarily locked out. If you are winning tournaments, why wouldn’t you hold your own against the portal enemies? Makes sense to me.
My point was, I shouldn't be doing any of that. I just started the game. I should still be killing spiders or whatever. You're definitely right though, different strokes for different folks, and while I don't like them. I'm still glad they're around for people who do.
I kind of feel bad for people who are only motivated by things like trophies, or feeling the need to 100% a game. If I'm not enjoying a game, I'm not going to force myself to play it longer because of some strange need inside me to 100% complete every game I start. If I don't like playing a game, I will just stop playing it.
I'm largely extrinsically motivated. I always have high hopes of 100%-ing games, but I find once all the quests are done, my enthusiasm for going out and wandering and finding the last things drops off precipitously. Even if I'm not following the storyline and have wandered off to explore, I still feel the need for some ultimate promise of more story to come.
Time played: 400 hours. Completion percentage: 15%
extremely intrinsically motivated. give me a world with stuff in it, not goals
I lean toward the "here's a goal, good fucking luck getting there" types of games, but I sometimes play more open-ended games like Cataclysm: DDA and Dwarf Fortress. Currently I've been binging Vechs' Super Hostile Minecraft maps, which I guess offer a fusion of both?
Somewhere in between, I like having something to work towards but I also enjoy making my own fun along the way.
It also depends on my mood, sometimes I want to min max something, sometimes I just want to cruise around in GTA and check places out.
I'm not a "make my own fun" gamer, and now when I think about it, because all of my "make my own fun" is done outside of gaming, e.g. playing music, coding, 3d printing, drawing, etc.
I feel you on the destination. Don't get me wrong, I want all the side quests, but open world games don't tickle my fancy. Give me arcade games, karting, platformers, metroidvanias, old Zelda games any day of the week.
Definitely exstrinsicly. I do play open world games (and (J)RPGs) and while I do attempt side quests etc, it rarely holds my attention in the same way as the main story, if there is one. If there isn't one I'll usually get bored pretty quickly.
I don’t think I fit either side of this dichotomy (though if forced to pick would choose extrinsically), as I love a good story but am very much about the journey and not just the destination.
If I had to guess, the limits of development scope and the resulting limits on worlds being believably reactive means a lot of people are going to see themselves as extrinsically motivated, with the big exception being people that just love building things in sandboxes. Intrinsic motivators would be much easier to come across if more avenues of interaction felt fleshed out but for some rare exceptions.
I've never really thought about it this way, but reading this I realized I'm just like that also. I find really hard to keep playing a game that does reward progress by give you things to keep it fresh and interesting. I guess that's why I get bored with most games...
All of you intrinsically motivated gamers. Have you heard of our lord and savior, Bob? Have you played eve online?
One of the most complex, brutal, make your own fun games I’ve ever played. On and off for 16 years and I still suck at it.
I have played Eve. I log in every few months or so to do a little exploration.
@DaSaw @lenninscjay I played with a buddy we made a plan to get "rich" we bought the omega subscription got the big miner ship and things where going well then the "coolness" wore off games kinda boring unless you can make your own fun 24/7
Definitely extrinsically. In a lot of those super open games, I get just completely overwhelmed by choice, don't know where to go or what to do, and give up. I've tried twice to play Breath of the Wild and I just can't. Give me a linear experience any time.
I feel that the line is not nearly as sharp. I play a lot of freeform games for extrinsic reasons. Building a cool castle in Minecraft is probably an extrinsic motivation, for example.
When I played Minecraft a whole ton, It was because I was on a server, and I was motivated by impressing my friends, a clear extrinsic motivation.
In WoW, I'm largely motivated to master the game so that I can keep up with my boyfriend, running 20+ dungeons and Heroic (soon Mythic) raids. Another extrinsic motivation.
Etterna, a rhythm game is probably my most intrinsically motivated game. I play it mostly because I enjoy the feeling of mastering a new skill. But even that is extrinsic to some degree, because what most clearly shows my skill? The game praising me with AAs and big streaks. I wouldn't enjoy Etterna without those things, so I wouldn't play a gradeless version.
Intrinsically, definitely. Minecraft, Dwarf Fortress, RimWorld, Victoria 2, and etc.
When I was young I would spend hours taking photographs or randomly roaming around in GTA San Andreas, it was a nice break from reality to just be free. As I grow old, I find myself actually enjoying good narrative without painfully complex mechanics like Minecraft, and I presume TotK. Back then I would skip the missions and just fool around, now i would follow the missions and in the process fool around only after i get comfortable with the game world and setting.
I've always been a slow-to-start gamer. I've really for to ease into games. I remember when I first played FFX, I just kept playing the beginning over and over because I didn't realize there was a save feature, and everytime more of the story got revealed, my thought was, "how much more game could there possibly be?"
Minecraft was great until I had mastered the mechanics, and then looked further to see what the point of all that learning was. Turns out there was no point.
I guess I'm saying that I love the sandbox until I've learned to be efficient in the sandbox, then I want something to do with the efficiency I've gained. If the game asks too much of me from the start without giving me a chance to slowly learn (Apex, COD, etc.), I'm out. If there's no goal after I've learned, I'm out.
I just left D2 after 5 years only because the only thing left for me to do in the game was PvP, and I'm never going to be good enough at PvP because there is not enough time for me to git gud.
@bijuice I recall when achievements were still kinda new and weird a little game called viva pinata. While it was a creative sandbox of sorts, the achievements essentially guided you to get 'everything' the game had to offer, and it ended up being one of the only 'monster catching' games I actually finished completely and loved.
I think that's probably the way to do it. Freedom to do what you want, but a guide to encourage you to do most of it.
I really liked VP. I'm guessing it wouldn't hold up like I remember it, but I low key hope for a new entry someday
@frank ya the. Second one really wasn't as good somehow to me. But with the cozy game trend atm it feels like a new entry would do well.
Honestly depends, for minecraft I need goals, I need a motive (ie modded quest books). Satisfactory is one game where I can just wander around and collect things to get to the next big thing.
Both. I love to set my own targets. They can be informed by larger in game targets on entirely seperate ('wouldn't it be cool if I did X' or 'I wonder if I can do Y') but I cannot play without a goal or target of somesort. Often I find something as trivial as a client side number going up is enough to keep me satisfied like a high score at an arcade but I'm not competitive with other people.
For most games, I'm like you - It's been a gradual shift for me, as I used to play very sandboxy type games before (although I could never get into Minecraft), but have been heavily focused on story-heavy / experience-based games for the last 3+ years.
I will say that I really liked BotW though, and am looking forward to playing TotK eventually (in the next 2/3 years or so) and Starfield has got me really intrigued, so we'll see.
Then there's the "intrinsic me", I guess, I don't mind playing some games for the sake of it, with no goals in mind - Forza Horizon just going from one end of the map to the other, or the same loop of various arcade games whenever I don't feel like doing anything else - sure there's some sort of objective, but ultimately when you've seen and done it that many times, it's not far off from it not being there at all imo, and I still enjoy it just as much.
I enjoy being able to set my own goals and rules in games. If a game tells me to kill 15 bears just to check off a box, I'm probably not going to want to. But if I decide that I need 15 bear pelts to make myself special armor so I can RP being a barbarian or just look cool then I'm all over it. For me, planning what and how I'm going to do in the game is as fun as actually doing it.