this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2024
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here are some hyper-polluting individuals:

  • the Rolling Stones’ Boeing 767 (5,046 tonnes of CO2)
  • Lawrence Stroll (1,512 flights)
  • Thirty-nine jets linked to 30 Russian oligarchs – (30,701 tonnes of CO2)

relevant quote:

But I will say this, a movement can't get along without a devil, and across the whole political spectrum there is a misogynistic tendency to choose a female devil, whether it's Anita Bryant, Hillary Clinton, Marie Antoinette, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, or J.K. Rowling [or Taylor Swift]. And there's always gonna be people who seize on any opportunity to be misogynistic. So I would advise trans people and our allies [or environmentalists] to keep in mind, that J.K. Rowling [Taylor Swift] is not the final boss of transphobia [anti-environmentalism]. She's not our devil. The devil is the Republican Party, the Conservative Party.

Natalie Wynn (emphasis and bracket text mine)

edit: if you can’t respond to this without using the c*nt expletive it is not helping your case lmao. mods are we okay with this? in any case, please don’t feed the trolls.

edit 2/FAQ: “but why did she threaten legal action against that college kid though?” still shitty, but refer to this comment for a good explanation of the context behind that decision.

She only threatened legal action since those memes started before when her flight movements got the attention of the right in an attempt to make her less credible of a voice speaking out against trump. And knowing how batshit insane trump cultists can be and how she’s basically the single most hated person of his base I’m not surprised that she feared for her security. Those records were public for years but the legal action only happened after someone created that meme and even fox news suddenly cared about plane emissions…

and another good comment

[…] For Swift, this is legitimate fear. I don't know if you've ever experienced actual fear for your life, but it's crippling, and it effects your psyche. To experience that on a daily basis because of an app? You bet your goddamn ass I'm going to talk to my lawyers about what my options are.

sources/timeline for the above:

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[–] iAmTheTot@kbin.social 90 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Levying valid criticism on someone is not scapegoating. You can criticize more than one person for the same thing.

[–] blindsight 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

The point is that the scapegoat is usually female. Why is Taylor Swift being singled out for her private jet use? Is it because her use is assumed to be less legitimate because she's a woman?

A quick Internet search brought up this:

Among the most polluting jets covered by the list was a Boeing 767 wide-body aircraft used by the Rolling Stones. It emitted an estimated 5,046 tonnes of CO2, the equivalent of someone taking 1,763 return flights from London to New York City in economy class.

Aircraft owned by Lawrence Stroll, the billionaire owner of the Aston Martin Formula One team, recorded a combined 1,512 flights since the start of 2022. His private aircraft, including two helicopters, also made the most journeys of 15 minutes or less.

Thirty-nine jets linked to 30 Russian oligarchs – including Roman Abramovich, Leonid Mikhelson and the recently deceased leader of the Wagner group, Yevgeny Prigozhin – were responsible for 30,701 tonnes of CO2 (equivalent to the total average carbon footprint of around 1,000 Russians).

Source

So, attacking billionaires who are abusing private jets is totally fair, in general, but always singing out the woman who does so is misogynistic.

Where are the Rolling Stones or Laurence Stroll memes?

[–] iAmTheTot@kbin.social 29 points 9 months ago

There have been memes about lots of shit head billionaires. The Taylor Swift ones are popular right now because she Streisand'ed it by trying to get that tracker taken down.

[–] sneezycat@sopuli.xyz 19 points 9 months ago

I mean there was a Twitter account that followed Elon's jet and was banned. That was the first time I saw a big meme around billionaires using jets. And I'm pretty sure I've seen other people criticized for it too. I feel like the focus is on Taylor this time around, but it's just one of many. Although I'm not saying there's no mysoginy involved, but I don't think she's singled out if you think of a couple years timeframe.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

thank you for this! your link didn’t work for me but i think this is the one.

and note that posting a taylor meme doesn’t make you misogynist—it just means you are playing into misogynist tropes and unfortunately giving freak MAGA propaganda a disproportionate platform.

not here to call anyone out, just asking us to consider what effects our trends and memes have on the broader world.

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[–] ninpnin@sopuli.xyz 55 points 9 months ago (1 children)

in response to public pressure, Swift recently cut back on private flights and downsized to one jet

So the memes worked?

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

yep! the memes worked over a year ago. see my sources below. my concern is that the memes are spiking now when the joke has already made a difference. again, this is all valid criticism in a vacuum! but i encourage folks to consider how much the MAGA crowd has latched onto Swift as their “female devil.”

24 flights per month at the beginning of 2022

12(ish) flights per month at the beginning of 2023 while she kicked off her massive eras tour

[–] ninpnin@sopuli.xyz 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Recently or a year ago? I think both, as she did get of the other plane just a few weeks ago.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

flights were reduced in early 2023. and you are correct that she got rid of one of the planes super recently. sorry for the confusion, hope this clarifies :)

[–] schnokobaer@lemmy.ml 32 points 9 months ago (3 children)

It's a valid criticism, I'm just wondering where 90% of those folks criticizing were the last 10 years, when it would have also been a valid criticism against her, but only a select group of people called it out and I recall precisely zero memes on this specific topic. Curious, that this has only become a mainstream meme now that there is a defamation campaign actively being conducted against her by right wing media.

[–] beardown@lemm.ee 18 points 9 months ago

All billionaires are evil. That includes all female billionaires

[–] DessertStorms@kbin.social 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

This is the issue, not criticising Swift in general.

OP misses the mark in my eyes, not because the misogyny isn't fuelling the recent wave of criticism from the right (who couldn't give two fucks about emissions since they don't believe in climate change), but because it lumps all criticism of Swift together, valid or not, almost feeling like it's pro-Swift rather than being anti-misogyny, and fuck being pro Swift, and excusing any of her actions (downsizing from two jets to one isn't worthy of any praise nor defence, it's not like she can use both at once, and is still flying just as much).

You can (and should) call out misogynists without defending the billionaire.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

thank you for your nuanced response :)

i absolutely hear your qualms with my post and i wish i was a good enough rhetoricist to quell them, but i’ll just say i 100% am not in this to defend Swift. when the memes kicked off over a year ago in mid 2022 i found them really funny and rhetorically useful. she deserved the eyes on her that she got because it was proportionate to the damage she is causing.

but now it’s 2024 and she has reduced flights by over half (depending on how you count), and it’s only now that the meme has really become fashionable? this is where i see the issue, that the collective ridicule for her is now disproportionate to the damage she is involved in.

does she deserve the memes still? yeah totally. is she the very best option to meme among the dozens of celebrities and capital owners who do almost identically awful things? i personally don’t think so, not quite. is it concerning that MAGA folks have latched on to her now as evil for encouraging votes, citing CO2 emissions as though they had ever given a flying fuck about them? absolutely.

summary: i have zero defense for Swift or her actions. it is impossible to become a billionaire without exploitation. but the window of peak rhetorical opportunity for these memes has passed by over a year and it’s very unlikely that beating this dead horse is going to make any further positive change in her behaviors. i’m here to encourage you to just see that, and make your own decisions from there.

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[–] LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 9 months ago

I always criticized her and every other ultra wealthy PoS. Celebrity culture needs to die off as it is anyway

[–] AdmiralShat@programming.dev 27 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Is this because she's a woman or because she's a billionaire? I feel like we make fun of plenty of men too

[–] emptiestplace@lemmy.ml 14 points 9 months ago (1 children)
  • I'm quite confident that, more often than not, women face greater challenges than men.

  • This post is fucking weird.

[–] AdmiralShat@programming.dev 7 points 9 months ago

Yeah, I'm not doubting the validity of the statement that women definitely have hardships men don't, but I really feel like that's not why she's being memed.

[–] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

She is getting this attention because some very powerful people, who benefit from producing a lot of greenhouse gases, would prefer that everyone be mad at T Swift instead of them.

[–] wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one 4 points 9 months ago (9 children)
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[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 27 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

Yeah, criticizing the Rolling Stones in 2024 is totally equivalent to criticizing Taylor Swift, yeah let's pivot right to that. Ignore the fact that she's arguably the most popular musician on earth right now, just played a major cultural event, and all recent events.... no, let's go back to a washed up classic rock band and meme on them instead. Yeah, that'll work.

Fucking Swifties dude.....

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 31 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

honestly, for me personally? the fact a “washed up classic rock band,” as you put it, is outputting more CO2 than an actually-relevant Swift? that’s a huge difference and reason to be all the more critical of The Rolling Stones. like what are they even doing all that for lol.

i criticize both and defend neither.

[–] kernelle@0d.gs 16 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Yeah it sucks they seem to get a free pass, there certainly is an element of truth in this post. However, I still think the post is fighting the wrong battle. Memes will pass and Swift has certainly caused this shitstorm herself by threatening to sue a regular joe over public accessible information.

It's a general accepted truth rich people and companies have been spewing the majority of CO2 emissions, and this post is just a whole load of "whataboutisms".

I genuinely can't believe I'm the first one to actively press the downvote button on this post, what a load of bullshit.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

this instance has downvotes disabled which is why you are seeing as though you are the first to downvote.

i hear and understand your position, and fear not you are not alone in your opinion :)

[–] kernelle@0d.gs 2 points 9 months ago

Oh that didn't occur to me, I retract the last part of my comment!

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I only know Taylor Swift from Americans talking about her. Presumably she's "the biggest in the world" just like the Superbowl is the biggest TV or sports event in the world, which it isn't.

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 4 points 9 months ago

I'm just speaking to how she recently set a world record

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[–] Pilgrim 24 points 9 months ago

I agree with the general idea here, but when I started following the Swift jet tracker after the Superbowl, I saw her make two flights that next day. Seems to me, some people are taking a whole hell of a lot while the rest of us are left with scraps.

[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 23 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I assume the jet thing is just an excuse because Taylor Swift is the target du jour of the MAGA movement. They don't care about the jet use of anyone else but are actively making up shit about Swift.

This isn't about principles. It's just about othering.

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[–] drunkosaurus@kbin.social 21 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Remember when Taylor Swift urged her audience to go out and vote? I can't escape the feeling that riffing constantly on her carbon footprint is a retaliation for that. They finally found something about her to latch on to.

[–] iAmTheTot@kbin.social 4 points 9 months ago

I just don't understand this. In any reasonable conversation, these two things have nothing to do with each other.

Who is reading Swift memes and thinking "Man, I was going to vote, but seeing how much she jets around has really made me not want to anymore."

[–] Flumpkin@slrpnk.net 20 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

~~That~~ Thank you for putting this so well. Now we're entering the next phase, progressives arguing and attacking each other while climate inaction continues uninterrupted :D

[–] janabuggs 17 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Spujb is good people. I appreciate all the content you post.

So in all honesty, I have been adamantly anti Taylor Swift since the moment I learned there was a new pop star, but this is only because I hate all pop stars and anything corporate. I appreciate the reminder to check yourself on misogyny though. That really does slip into our subconscious so easily.

You know what hate brigade I am praying for? Dave fucking Grohl. I cannot think of a more neutral ass corporate shill.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 4 points 9 months ago

holy shit homie this means a lot thank you 🫶

[–] 1stTime4MeInMCU@mander.xyz 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Thank you for saying this. I have nothing else to say but an upvote seemed insufficient!

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[–] Napain@lemmy.ml 7 points 9 months ago

yeah, they only meme about her because she is a threat to the maga crowd

[–] t0fr@lemmy.ca 6 points 9 months ago

We already did Elon Musk, now we're on Taylor Swift, the next one? Who knows

[–] arymandias@feddit.de 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The Taylor airplane meme has basically been played out and is no longer funny.

But for me the reason I found those memes funny is the same why I find it more interesting to take the piss out of Bill Gates rather than Musk. Everyone already knows Musk is a complete nut job. But there seem to be an alarming amount of people that think Gates is genuinely a good person because of his stupid charity.

From what I see Taylor Swift is just a business woman doing business, and she is very good at that. So most decisions she makes are because she assesses that they are good for her brand, and this includes political decisions/ standpoints. The airplane angle is one of the few things she can not control in this regard, and that is why I find/found it funny to stress that point.

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[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Well ... this meme format ... such was the style at the time, but we didn't post pics on the internet back then. Why use millions of times more data bandwidth than is necessary (pic vs ascii)?

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

this is such a great question, and one I am interested in myself.

you have to consider engagement and reach. let’s look at the numbers:

  • raw ascii size of the meme text is ~625 bytes
  • size of the image: 787 KB

so your estimate of “millions of times” is already not quite accurate. its just a little more than 1000x.

from experience on the internet, i know that people are more likely to read something if it looks pretty. advertisers and marketers are aware of this too.

so am i getting 1000x more reach than if i just did a text post? well, without empirical evidence, my guess is actually probably, or at least in that ballpark. especially considering the context that this is c/196 and no one really wants to read text posts on here :)

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[–] tanja@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Based take

Feminism goes brrrr, as it should ✨🚀

[–] onewaymars@lemm.ee 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Make memes about premier league (or any other sportsperson) footballers and see them cut back on their jet planes usage... NOT!

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 4 points 9 months ago

i endorse this message.

[–] LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Natalie Wynn is cringe AF her outfits are just the petit bourgeoisie version of the TayTay private jet and her theatrics are annoying and do more damage to the credibility of progressives than the soviet union ever could.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 9 points 9 months ago (4 children)

bro is comparing some clothes to the imprisonment and execution of millions of people 💀

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