this post was submitted on 26 Dec 2023
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Anyone else banned from the forums and reddit? (discuss.tchncs.de)
submitted 11 months ago by ggpeti@discuss.tchncs.de to c/framework@lemmy.ml
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I got banned from the forums after having been considered "too combative" for not taking it lightly that a moderator lectured me on unrelated forum etiquette rules.

I wanted to discuss a legitimate technical issue, which turned out to be coil whine - at the time I did not know it was called that. A community member offered some advice, and I asked them kindly whether they would like to remove a particular question which I've answered in the very previous original post. They became offended by the very suggestion of this and deleted their whole reply, including the useful stuff. The moderator stepped in here and gave me a petty little lecture on all kinds of behavior norms, which I one by one refuted - to no avail, the thread just got locked.

Ok, fresh start. Let's open another topic because I'm not here to bicker - I have an issue to discuss. The new topic got closed within 10 minutes by a mod, threatening me with a ban if I open it again.

I thought that was kinda ridiculous, because I'm a Framework customer and I want to discuss an issue with my laptop, so I opened anothe topic. Sure enough, it got closed and I got banned for a month.

A month has passed, and my problem is still there. One day when I'm browsing the interwebs to understand my issue, I stumble upon another Framework forum post discussing the same thing. My ban being lifted, I jump into the conversation and confirm that I have the same issue, and I share my story of having been banned after trying to discuss this. As you might guess, a mod appears, closes this topic as well, and states that the real reason I've been banned is that I have... wait for it... FREIGHT FORWARDED! And proceeds to permaban me on the spot with the notice "too combative"! What the hell, Framework!!!

I hadn't freight forwarded and I have no possible explanation as to why this mod was jumping at me like that. Anyway, let's take to reddit to complain about this. Quickly, a mob of zealous Framework fans forms, trampling over each other trying to lecture me that freight forwarding is prohibited etc... I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT FREIGHT FORWARDING! I was complaining about a mod accusing me of freight forwarding and banning me for this bogus reason! And guess what - eventually the thread gets shut down after inevitably devolving into a discussion of freight forwarding (to which Framework has a similarly bogus attitude, although that has changed slightly with them conceding to European single market regulations) - the Reddit thread gets locked as well and I get permabanned from the subreddit for "discussing freight forwarding"!

Ever since, I message the mods on Reddit every now and then, reminding them of the utterly crazy way they've been treating me, and the usual response is just a temporary mute so that I can't message them further.

Does anyone else have a similar experience?

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[–] blindsight 31 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

So, not sure how to say this on the Internet with kind intentions coming through, but that's my intent.

All of the above sounds completely reasonable on part of the mods. Community norms are incredibly important for maintaining community cohesion. Unmoderated descend into hate speech remarkably quickly.

Essentially, someone helped you then asked a clarifying question. Instead of kindly saying "thank you! I think I answered that in the OP when I said [quote], but let me know if that's not what you mean!" it sounds like you were a jerk to someone who was volunteering their time to help you.

Then a mod comes and tells you not to be a jerk to the volunteers helping you, and you try to "rules lawyer" the mod.

In the new thread did you mention that your previous thread was closed for no reason? If so, completely reasonable it was closed. Even if not, I think the mod's mistake was not giving you a temporary ban immediately for being a jerk and not following community norms, not for deleting your second identical thread where you're likely to be combative again.

I could go on, but at every turn you have blamed other people for shutting you down. The only common denominator here is you.

Tone is very hard to read over the Internet, so miscommunications and misreading intent is very common. This means that being misinterpreted is the norm in the Internet, and isn't personal. Just kindly clarify your intent/meaning and move on. There's no point arguing over the Internet, especially with someone in charge of policing content who doesn't have any shits to give about replying to a wall of text telling them they don't know what they're doing.

Being a customer didn't give you any special privileges or rights to ignore community norms and rules.

Take a break and try to be more kind next time.

[–] ggpeti@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Community norms are incredibly important for maintaining community cohesion. Unmoderated descend into hate speech remarkably quickly.

Then disallow hate speech and take action on it. Easy.

you were a jerk to someone who was volunteering their time to help you

Was I really? Here's my comment to them:

I’ve stated in the post that the sound is on no matter whether the laptop is plugged in or not. Would you mind deleting this question so as to not clutter the topic?

And here's their later response admitting that they overreacted:

I admit openly I got pissed because I spend valuable time here trying to help others on my own will but asking me to delete a question “to not clutter your topic” felt rude and out of place.

There is no harm in repeating it once again, I sincerly did not see the statement about the power source.

Either way, hope you get this sorted. Sorry for my bad mood. All the best.

[–] blindsight 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They literally said exactly what I suggested you'd done: there's no harm in repeating the information!

Don't know what now to say to you, friend. Maybe also that norms are important for keeping spaces positive places for everyone, and being defensive and combative isn't a helpful strategy anywhere in life, least of all online where there are no visual cues to help read people.

I hope you use this as a chance for introspection and growth. :)

[–] ggpeti@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 10 months ago

He/she admitted he/she had overreacted and apologized for it, but the mods were already jumping on the opportunity to exert moderatory power as a means to reaffirm their control. Clear as day. I have looked into myself and found no malice or resentment. All I'm trying to do is raise awareness of corporate abuse of powers with the hope of sparking awareness of it and demand for change. What they are doing is manipulating public opinion of themselves for profit - banning someone over bogus claims is a means to that end. This conversation here has devolved into a cesspit of ad hominem on my person, with nobody being able to provide one example of me mistreating a single person. I appreciate your kind words to help me get support, but that is also beside the point. The point is we shouldn't put up with such disingenious behavior from companies and that's why I provided my story. I hope you and others can learn from it for the greater good.

[–] Hegar@kbin.social 29 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It sounds like every step of the way, on multiple sites, everyone you've interacted with has told you they find your tone combative and your behavior unacceptable.

Usually, when everyone around you in multiple different contexts tells you you're wrong, you're probably wrong.

[–] ggpeti@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Many people tell me I'm wrong, and usually what they mean is I'm annoying. They are also ignoring the points I'm right about. Nothing new there. I want people to focus on how Framework is overstepping the boundaries though, because I'm not the important issue here. You will probably never interact with me ever again, so why focus on my traits? Framework is here to stay in the public space, so let's focus on what they are doing wrong - and you know what? People do understand this, and they feel powerless about it, and they take it out on me instead as a form of cognitive dissonance reduction. I don't blame anyone for doing this. But do note how much effort people suddenly put into correcting the behavior of someone they have no interest in. Funny, isn't it?

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[–] snowe@programming.dev 27 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yikes. Literally everything you said here is a red flag and then someone went and provided links to your behavior to solidify those red flags. Please stop treating those that just try to help you in that manner. It’s incredibly rude and hurtful.

[–] ggpeti@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Incredibly rude sentence from me towards person who was just try to help me. You copy it here. Now, or your statement is retracted.

[–] snowe@programming.dev 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don’t know what your sentence means, but it doesn’t seem nice. Dude you really need to learn to communicate with others on the internet better.

[–] asqapro 12 points 11 months ago

They’re trying to command you to either provide an example of them being “incredibly rude” to someone helping them or delete your comment. This person feels like a caricature of an internet dweller, it’s pretty great.

[–] amio@kbin.social 25 points 11 months ago (1 children)

gave me a petty little lecture on all kinds of behavior norms, which I one by one refuted

The fact that you're in here ranting about it, and boasting about "refuting" them, shows maybe they had a point.

That's blunt, but... hey. You were asking someone for help, then looking the gift horse in the mouth, then "refuting" suggestions that it could rub people the wrong way. If people weren't already annoyed, that will definitely do the trick.

Maybe you didn't intend to, I can sympathize somewhat, but that is definitely how it comes across just by reading this.

[–] ggpeti@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm sure they had some points, although the original mod's citings were utterly irrelevant and the whole lecture was just incoherent drivel, you can go check it out if you're interested.

I understand it rubs people the wrong way. I'm holding them to higher standards though - to standards of not banning people based on being "rubbed the wrong way". That's... backwards. Human civilization is built on higher understanding, not acting on knee jerk feelings. And I assume fully that Framework is not acting on knee jerk feelings, they know very well what they are doing. And it's terrifying.

[–] amio@kbin.social 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It really doesn't matter. No matter how right you think you are: if you do this sort of thing, people will likely think you are being a dick.

[–] ggpeti@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

No I think it really does matter. Public opinion can be shifted. It has huge inertia but people should be pushing it in the right way to begin with.

[–] CrypticCoffee@lemmy.ml 11 points 11 months ago

Not when you're clearly in the wrong.

People try to help you and you turn it into pissing contest. You'd rather focus on feeding your ego than being appreciative. I cannot imagine anyone in their right mind would want to help someone so condescending and fixated on fueling their fragile ego.

I've come out of this thread thinking more about Framework, not less.

[–] amio@kbin.social 10 points 11 months ago

Best of luck, particularly if this is the way you try to fix the issue.

[–] Scary_le_Poo 20 points 11 months ago (1 children)

https://community.frame.work/t/extremely-high-pitched-constant-sound-coming-from-laptop/29861

I didn't think it would be that bad but holy lols

Tl;Dr op is an insufferable prick and rightly gets shut down by the mods every time he tries to stir the pot again.

[–] Droechai@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

Yikes, that shows paper thin level of understandingbof others and desire to meet in the middle

[–] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 11 months ago

Being kind and courteous to others goes a long way to getting assistanc. Most forum users are not company employees. If support is not available in your country, you are dependent on these volunteers and it would be pragmatic to set aside your perceived grievences to get the help that you are seeking.

Remember that you are not entitled to any assistance from forum users, such as those that tried to figure out your issue. Nor are you entitled to use a privately-owned community forum - it is not violating free speech to require decorum, even in public forums in most jurisdictions. And, as for support, you are only entitled to what is in your contract or that which is afforded in the laws governing the company's business.