this post was submitted on 25 Dec 2023
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I've been using Linux Mint since forever. I've never felt a reason to change. But I'm interested in what persuaded others to move.

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[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 55 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

Every couple of years I think to myself "You know, I can't actually remember why I don't like Ubuntu. It must have just been some weird one-off thing that soured me on it last time. Besides, I've got N more years of Linux experience under my belt, so I know how to avoid sticky situations with apt, and they've had N more years to make their OS more user friendly! I pride myself on not holding grudges, and if this distro still gets recommended to newbies, how bad can it possibly be, especially for someone with my level of expertise?"

And then I download Ubuntu.

And then I remember.

[–] reflex@kbin.social 36 points 11 months ago (2 children)

And then I remember.

Can you share with the rest of the class?

[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 35 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Admittedly, it's been a few years and I'm coming due, but let's see what I can remember...

  • apt will brick itself if it gets interrupted mid transaction with no clear recourse apart from a total reinstall, so try not to get greedy and Ctrl+C if it looks like dpkg is hung
  • trying to install any software that isn't already packaged explicitly for Ubuntu is a nightmare because there is no equivalent of the AUR for people to push build steps to and you're quite often left guessing what dependencies you need to install to get something to compile
  • snapcraft, need I say more? Firefox takes several minutes to start up, we don't talk about disk usage, installing a package with apt will sometimes install the snap version anyway requiring a Windows-registry-edit-esque hack to disable, and the last time I checked in, the loop devices it creates didn't even get hidden in the file manager.
  • I've also definitely encountered my fair share of bugs and broken packages which are always fun to fix
[–] Exec@pawb.social 10 points 11 months ago
  • apt will brick itself if it gets interrupted mid transaction with no clear recourse apart from a total reinstall, so try not to get greedy and Ctrl+C if it looks like dpkg is hung

You can dpkg -r the package you tried to install then apt won't complain about missing dependency packages for your app as it won't be marked for to be installed

trying to install any software that isn't already packaged explicitly for Ubuntu is a nightmare because there is no equivalent of the AUR for people to push build steps to and you're quite often left guessing what dependencies you need to install to get something to compile

There isn't a big global community repo per say like aur but anyone can host their own repos with PPAs, you just need to add them to your lists

Most apt quirks are there with Debian too, not just an Ubuntu thing. The rest of the things you mentioned are fair.

[–] mwguy@infosec.pub 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)
  • trying to install any software that isn't already packaged explicitly for Ubuntu is a nightmare because there is no equivalent of the AUR for people to push build steps to and you're quite often left guessing what dependencies you need to install to get something to compile

In fairness it does have the PPA system which predates the AUR and does provide a good job of providing third party amd semi-third party software.

But you're right that Ubuntu has sold out on building snaps for software instead of ppas.

[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 5 points 11 months ago

The PPAs weren't that useful. I mean they worked fine for the purpose, but if you used too many of them you'd eventually get your system into a dependency hell. That meant packages were stuck without updates and also blocking others from updating.

The other thing was that even if you kept clear of PPAs it was anybody's guess if you could upgrade to the next release. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't and you'd have to reinstall from scratch.

Put together it meant after a while you didn't bother upgrading period, or upgraded only major releases but by reinstalling from scratch every single time (and preserving /home). It was a chore and I resented it and kept putting it off.

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[–] UprisingVoltage@feddit.it 14 points 11 months ago

Recommending ubuntu to newbies is the product of either incompetence or malice when Mint, zorin and nobara exist

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[–] Illecors@lemmy.cafe 47 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (10 children)

Most of them.

  • Debian world - apt sucks. For something with a sole purpose of resolving a dependency tree, it's surprisingly bad at that.

  • Redhat world - everything is soooo old. I can see why business people like it, buy I rarely, if ever, agree with business people.

  • Opensuse world - I've only tried it once, probably 15 years ago. Didn't really know my way around computers all that much at the time, but it didn't click and I've left it. Later on I found out about their selling out to Microsoft and never bothered touching it again.

  • Arch - it was my daily for a year or two. Big fan. It still runs my email. At some point the size of packages started to annoy me, though. Still has the best wiki. I've never really bothered with the spinoffs, as the model of Arch makes them useless and more problematic to deal with.

I've got the Gentoo bug now. For the first time I genuinely feel ~/. A lean, mean system of machines :)

[–] miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml 32 points 11 months ago (7 children)

never really bothered with the spinoffs, as the model of Arch makes them useless and more problematic to deal with

I highly enjoy using EndeavourOS. But then again, I wouldn't classify it as a spinoff, it's pretty much vanilla Arch, but purple.

Now Manjaro on the other hand... Tried it and understood why so many people don't like it within the first week.

[–] estebanlm@lemmy.ml 13 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Mind to elaborate a little bit more about the Manjaro problem? I am driving it since a couple of years without any issue but I keep hearing this… now I am afraid :)

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[–] tutus@links.hackliberty.org 5 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Now Manjaro on the other hand... Tried it and understood why so many people don't like it within the first week.

I see this a lot and nobody really ever explains, properly, why.

I have used Linux off and on for many years (mainly server OS such as RHEL and CentOS). I have now migrated from Windows desktop to Manjaro KDE. Using it for a year. Had one issue (wouldn't boot after a kernel update), which I sorted quickly. Other than that it's been rock solid.

But this isn't a 'I have a great experience so you're all just haters' post.

I know the stuff about it being a week or behind Arch. I remember something about the maintainers (can't remember specifics) but they seem to be minor niggles that don't affect most people.

Genuine question.

Why do you dislike Manjaro? I also know it's a common theme to dislike it, so any other insight there?

[–] Illecors@lemmy.cafe 19 points 11 months ago

Not the guy you asked, but my 2 main gripes are:

  • holding back main repos and not aur? That's dumb and just asking for trouble.
  • sheer incompetence. Remember their certs expiring? Remember their public recommended workaround? That's webdev level of bs. They absolutely do not understand their own setup.
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[–] bh11235@infosec.pub 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Debian -- I just wasn't ready for it. Got told "oh you're using Mint? That's nice but you should try out Debian it's the Real Deal(tm)" but the reason I was using Mint back then in the first place was that it was my first step out of the Windows ecosystem, I was scared shitless and didn't understand anything. What do you mean I don't get a huge pretty start menu?! How am I supposed to find stuff then?!

[–] kubica@kbin.social 22 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I think you are referring to gnome more than debian. I've been trying debian with kde and so far I haven't found that many problems.

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[–] BiggestBulb@kbin.social 17 points 11 months ago

Basic, but Ubuntu. It's got snaps which are slow and generally suck, plus Canonical

[–] jaykay@lemmy.zip 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

NixOS… for now. I was on Fedora and was looking for something new. Thought I’d try these new „immutable” distros. Then realised I didn’t know enough about normal ones yet, so I switched to Arch instead. Plus, Nix’ docs are horrendous imo

[–] Wolfram 12 points 11 months ago

I tried NixOS too, and their docs are horrible for new users. I found myself looking for anything but the docs to get started. I decided to stay with my EndeavorOS install.

[–] prunerye@slrpnk.net 13 points 11 months ago

Mint, and anything else that requires PPAs. Last time I distrohopped, I had a rule that if I couldn't install Librewolf in under a minute or two, it wasn't worth the trouble.

Mind you, this was before flatpaks were big, but I also own a potato and don't want to waste space on flatpaks.

[–] downhomechunk@midwest.social 13 points 11 months ago (9 children)

Get that downvote finger ready!

Arch.

I know it's what all the cool kids are using, and I keep trying to like it, but I just can't get into it. I'm a slacker for life.

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[–] LeFantome@programming.dev 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Manjaro - used to love it. Now the only distro I actively advise against

Garuda - just too much ( I prefer Arch / EndeavourOS )

Elementary - wanted to love it - just too limited

Gentoo - realized I just don’t want to build everything

RHEL Workstation - everything too old

Bhodi - honestly do not remember - long ago

Ubuntu - ok, let’s expand…

These days, I dislike Snaps. Ubuntu just never hit the sweet spot for me though. I was already an experienced Linux user when it appeared and preferred RPM based distros at the tome. Ubuntu always seemed slow and fragile to me. Setting things up, like Apache with Mono back in the day, was “different” on Ubuntu and that annoyed me. For most of its history, it is what I would recommend to new users but I just never liked it myself.

Debian Stable - ok, let’s expand

I really like Debian. It was also a little “alien” when I was using Fedora / Mandrake and the like but it never bothered me like Ubuntu. I ran RHEL / Centos as servers so I did not need Debian stability. As a desktop, Debian packages were always just a little too old ( especially for dev ). The lack of non-free firmware made it a pain.

These days though, Debian has been growing on me. The move to include non-free firmware has made it much more practical. With Flatpaks and Distrobox, aging packages is much less of a problem too. I could see myself using Debian. I am strongly considering moving to VanillaOS ( immutable Debian ).

I basically do not run any RHEL servers anymore. At home, I have a fair bit running Debian already ( Proxmox, PiHole, PiVPN, and a Minecraft server ).

EndeavourOS is my primary desktop these days ( and I love it ) but it is mostly for the AUR. A Debian base with an Arch Distrobox might be perfect. Void seems quite nice as well.

I have been an Open Source advocate forever ( and used to say Free Software and FLOSS ). I have used Linux daily since the 0.99 kernels and I even installed 386BSD back in the day. Despite that, the biggest “not for me” distros right now are anything too closely associated with the politics of the GNU project. It has almost made me want to leave Linux and I have considered moving to FreeBSD. I would love to use Haiku. OCI containers and the huge software ecosystem keep me on Linux though.

The distribution that intrigues me the most right now is Chimera Linux. I run it with an Arch distrobox and it may become my daily driver. The pragmatism of projects like SerenityOS really attracts me. Who knows it may be what finally pulls me away after 30+ years of Linux.

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[–] recursive_recursion@programming.dev 12 points 11 months ago

Ubuntu, felt like I was being treated like a child with the lack of user customizability

then I chose to jump directly into Arch Linux🙃 and saw despair from analysis paralysis, somehow I learned Arch in just a month tho🤷‍♀️

[–] Commiunism@lemmy.wtf 12 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Gentoo - too long compile time, especially on my dated CPU. I prefer my system to update quickly.

Linux Mint - don't like apt, some packages I installed refused to work properly (like Lutris), and the color scheme which is admittedly customizable but I prefer rolling with defaults except when using WM.

Void Linux - after installing it I realized how much I actually missed systemd, couldn't be arsed to symlink services manually. And yes, I realize that's the whole point.

NixOS - realized how much there is to learn with the flakes and separating home configurations and whatever, and just gave up

Manjaro - I tried it twice at the beginning of my Linux journey, and both times the nvidia driver shat itself and gave me different problems that I couldn't fix.

Maybe I've been spoiled by Arch though, as most of my problems probably boil down to "not the same packages", "not pacman", "need to learn new skills that weren't in Arch" and so on. Though admittedly, I did try to explore with an open mind to find a new "cool" distro, but I'd always go back.

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[–] brayd@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Honestly everything besides Debian and Arch after distro hopping for years.

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[–] technologicalcaveman@kbin.social 9 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Debian, don't like apt.
Arch, breaks too much.
NixOs, just don't need the tools it provides.
Any fork of a mainline distro because it's never as good as the root.

I used arch for a while, but got sick of running repairs every few weeks. I use Gentoo now, it's stable and good. I have a fuck ton of ram and a good cpu, I also take advantage of binary packages from time to time. I don't really need to install new things that much after having done the initial install.

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[–] Crozekiel@lemmy.zip 9 points 11 months ago (4 children)

PopOS and Ubuntu - really just found that I don't like gnome. Nothing against it, I know some people love it but it is not for me. This would likely apply to any gnome distro, but those were the two I tried and immediately moved on.

Honorable mention: Manjaro because "it just breaks™" but it wasn't something I noticed immediately and initially liked the os...

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[–] anothermember 9 points 11 months ago (2 children)

One that might be controversial: OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. I still have a lot of respect for this distro and I really wanted to like it but it's just not for me. It's the fact that major updates could occur any day of the week, which could be time-consuming to install or they could change the features of the OS. It always presented a dilemma of whether to hold back updates which might include holding back critical updates.

So rolling distros aren't for me, everyone expects to run in to some occasional issues with Arch, but TW puts a lot of emphasis on testing and reliability, so I thought it might be for me. But the reality is I much prefer the release cycle and philosophy of Fedora, I think that strikes the best balance.

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[–] hottari@lemmy.ml 9 points 11 months ago

NixOS. Every simple update (nixos rebuild switch) was just eating RAM & CPU. I managed to brick it when updating to 23.11 and couldn't find a way out of the mess I created (even with the saved snapshots) so I said adios.

[–] MiddledAgedGuy 9 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Arch. Rolling release is too much maintenance and AUR can be a pain. I do like the minimalist approach though.

For those of a similar opinion and aren't familiar with it, check out Void. Also a minimalist rolling release, but aims for more stable packages so less updating. Decent package selection in their repos as well.

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[–] SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I ditched Ubuntu LTS for my homelab virtual machines around 20.04 when they started to push snaps, netplan and cloud-init, meaning I would have to spend a significant amount of effort redoing my bootstrap scripts for no good reason and learning skills that are only applicable in the Ubuntu ecosystem. I went with debian stable instead, and was left wondering why I hadn't done that sooner. It's like Ubuntu without all the weirdness.

[–] wurzelwerk@kbin.social 8 points 11 months ago

Anything arch, basically. Maybe I'm just a too lower tier power user, but I have always returned to Mint. Rock solid daily driver working out of the box. I don't really want to have to tinker with the os, I admit. It should just work.

[–] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 11 months ago

Ubuntu, because snaps break shit and don't work right a lot of the time, also they left people hanging with 32 bit support which isn't great (for being a Legacy OS for weak computers it's not a great look for them, or all the Linux distros that followed them).

There were a lot of problems with Fedora and CentOS, none of them as bad as Ubuntu though. Most were either instability or software availability due to lacking RPM versions of the software I needed.

Arch itself hasn't given me many problems but it is ideologically problematic for a lot of reasons (mainly the elitism) and it is also a rolling release which isn't great if you don't like being a guinea pig and getting software before all the bugs have been ironed out.

[–] pingveno@lemmy.ml 8 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Gentoo: I hated constantly compiling and configuring. It was incredibly time consuming. If I was compiling for uncommon cases it might make sense, but I am dealing with a pretty standard dev machine.

NixOS: The configuration is kind of a pain and never really got the extra features you get beyond package management working correctly.

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[–] arjache@kbin.social 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

NixOS. If I’m going to invest that much effort to configure a system I don’t want to have to put up with systemd.

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[–] boblin@infosec.pub 7 points 11 months ago

Arch: I need reproducible setups. Also bleeding edge is not for me.

I have to give credit to their documentation though!

[–] 0xtero@kbin.social 7 points 11 months ago

I've been using Debian since 1.3. Haven't really ever needed anything else.
I did "experiment" a bit when the decision to go with systemd was taken, but in the end, most distros went with it and it really isn't that big deal for me.

So it's just Debian. I need a computer that works.

[–] Goun@lemmy.ml 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Ubuntu. It has become so shitty over time, it's oretty sad.

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[–] Bleach7297@lemmy.ca 6 points 11 months ago

Ubuntu, after the third consecutive release that broke previously working hardware. That was a while ago and I haven't tried it recently, but given snap I'm not really inclined to.

[–] lntl@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] jcarax 6 points 11 months ago

It's funny, I was really excited for Ubuntu when it first released, and actually quite enjoyed it. On the other hand, RPM distros seemed like an absolute mess, at that time. Now it's the exact opposite. At least in regards to Fedora, it's a very well thought out and maintained distro if you want things to just work, and Ubuntu makes me uncomfortable.

[–] mikesailin@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

NIXOS is definitely not for me. The documentation sucks and there are less cumbersome ways to restore a system.

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[–] Veticia@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago

I tried arch btw.

But didn't like it.

[–] shellsharks@infosec.pub 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)
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[–] WreckingBANG@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago

Fedora. Dont get me wrong it is a great Distro but i did not really felt at home when using it.

[–] janabuggs 5 points 11 months ago

I honestly don't understand why recent Ubuntu releases are popular. However, I enjoyed it in the early 2000s. There was another popular release a few years ago that had zero hotkeys enabled and I have never felt more disgusted by a release in my life. I can't even remember what it's called, it traumatized me hahaha.

[–] ____@infosec.pub 5 points 11 months ago

Alpine. It’s powerful and fills a need in a specific use case. Just not my need, nor my use case, and that’s OK.

My docker usage is mostly testing and validation that when I run the code on the actual hardware, it will work as expected. I tend to want the container to match the target environment.

[–] WalnutLum@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago

RHEL, SELinux sucks and I hate it.

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