Programming

Yes. But are most managers too dumb to figure out that you can't program? Also yes.

Math is less important than logical thinking which often, but not always, goes with math skills. More important still is intellectual curiosity. Do you like solving puzzles? Do you like the feeling of breakthrough after a frustrating struggle figuring out how something works? Those will take you a long way.

Math knowledge is not essential; but really useful in programming as you're trying to make the computer do calculations of some sort.

Someone could definitely be too dumb to code though.

Programming success is more closely associated with language skills than math skills.

Yes, if you need to invent a new algorithm you'll need math. Computer Science is definitely mathematics heavy.

But writing a program is all about expressing your intent in a programming language, step by step. It's about "communicating" with the machine (and your users).

All this to say, I got C- and D grades in my math courses in college and still became a successful computer programmer. I'm not pushing the boundaries of computation, but if you need an app for your business, I can build that for you in a reliable, tested, and flexible manner.

Edit: Also! I love Common LISP. It's such an amazing language and I'm so sad that it isn't more popular in the industry.

80% of programming jobs will only require basic maths.

A lot of the time you're glueing together libraries written by much smarter people haha

It's more about logic than maths. People absolutely can find it too hard.

No, as evidenced by basically the entire industry. Don't fret it, all you have to do is be smarter than your boss, and that's fucking easy.

Nah, no need to worry. I've got a friend that was bad at math and therefore dismissed a career as programmer initially. Eventually, he just couldn't ignore how much programming interested him and did start a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science (after disliking his first year of Finance). A couple of years later and he's the proud owner of a Master's degree in Computer Science while still being relatively bad at math, but it didn't stop him. Nor should it stop you.

Usually when people say “I suck at maths”, it means that they are bad at doing manual calculus. Maths is extremely useful in programming, but it’s absolutely not the same kind of math. I don’t think that the grade you had in math at school will influence in any if you will be good or bad in programming.

I am not particularly good at math myself, but I like to program stuff... If I am any good at it... decide for yourself: https://github.com/matejc?tab=repositories ... anyway, if you have interest of doing something, stop the doubt, just do it.

Like with anything, you will not know if you are going to be good at it until you spend a lot of time trying and failing and learning. If you enjoy it, just keep doing it.

You doing C++? Avoid.

You doing basically anything else? You'll prob be fine with regards to math.

Have too low IQ? Yeah sure, I guess.

Be slower at it than the norm? Absolutely.

I only learned Algebra by learning programming and through that I learned how to think abstractly (abstract just mean "hiding details" - think of how a child draws a car. You can't tell it's colour, brand, model, etc, yet you can tell it's a car, even though all those details are hidden). Once I got that, I was able to follow videos from MIT that taught me more of the maths, giving me a theoretic foundation for programming. Now I'm doing an Algorithm course (also MIT) and feel like an "actual programmer" (because I felt like a "fake programmer" before that - though that still sometimes returns). After that I intend to learn more about SQL because I'm painfully lacking in that regard.

Anyway, I've been at it since 2005 when I was a 20-something kid, and there's always something new to learn.

FYI: I made a dependency graph of a bunch of freely available MIT courses, left is a dependency for stuff on the right: https://thaumatorium.com/articles/mit-courses/

Have you even heard of systemd? Of course you can't be too dumb for programming. Be lucky enough and you can build the cancer that will slowly grow and eat a hundred distros.

You can definitely learn to program without being great at math. Obviously, depends on what kind of programming.

If you want a computer science degree though? You’ll need the math.

I failed math 3 years in a row in high school and I made plenty of minecraft clones using nothing but logic and basic algebra. Math isn't as important to programming as people say, I still can't do division or multiplication on paper, but in a program, I can make it do that for me.

What even is "learn how to code" these days? I work in PowerShell, Shell, Docker Compose, and various xml, yml, json config files. Do I code? When I debug a particularly nasty DNS bug using netcat, dig, nsupdate and other tools it certainly feels like when I was coding Java. And when I push a CI-CD workflow to our tools git repo I work in many of the same tools as the Developers. But I'm not even sure I'd call what I do coding.

That said you can be too "dumb" (hate that word) or rather disadvantaged that you can't figure out doors and then coding is probably a step too far. But if you can grasp the English language and use it to construct sentence and describe a work task to a colleague for them to perform with it then you can certainly learn how to build at least simpler programs in a programming language, it's really not all that different. It's the language of how to tell a computer to solve a task.

Let's see. I don't like math syntax. And you can hound me with Haskell. But i like Python and Rust and Shell. So i guess, not generally.

Keep in mind that many math teachers are incompetent at their jobs - some of that may have had little to do with you.

Though you are correct that math does involve patience, a willingness to fail often until you eventually get it right, and a logical progression of steps where at each stage you keep track of the results of previous steps.

I'm saying that you can most likely do it! Though it may be frustrating, especially at first, while you sharpen those skills that math should have taught you but bc of cheapening out in education, you may have skipped over. It's all up to you now though... my advice is that even if it takes you 10 to 100 times longer than someone else to do some little thing, so the fuck what, the important thing is that you can do it! (And if you practice, it gets a heck of a lot easier over time) I love this quote (from C.S. Lewis):

Don't judge a man by where he is, because you don't know how far he has come.

No, I don't think so.

It just takes a bit longer for some to grasp certain concepts of a programming language. If I think I need more time I try to solve an issue for my own projects first. When I need a thing for work, it won't be the first time anymore I see a particular problem and deal with it faster.

I consider myself an average programmer, but I am also proud of the programs that do some valuable things for me and I can rely on. You can always go back to your old code and optimize it as soon as you learn new things.

I have respect for those who seem to program only at work and don't show when they are in trouble (stressed because of deadlines), but in the end their code works, too, after it came back from the second review.

Yes but it's a low bar and failing math in school doesn't mean much. Just try writing programs, be a little stubborn about it, and see how it goes.

Most common reason for being bad at programming is finding it boring and thinking the tools are needlessly obtuse.

If anything this is a sign of great intellect.

Programming is all about understanding relationships. You make a thing. Great. How do you identify thing? How do you reuse thing? You identify what it is and what it does. Do other things do what your thing does? Great! Make an identifier for that shared ability. Now you can call the shared identifier with other things and so on...

Anyways, I sucked at algebra which seems to be the most commonly identified issue with those of us "bad at math". I have never used more than basic algebra (something + something = something aka x + y = z). Maybe in 50s and 60s when programming was extremely hard you needed to be good at math, but that's absolutely not the case any more.

I suck at math and I know programming fairly well. It's more about logic and order of operation than anything. Knowing when to add, subtract, multiply or divide. At least when it comes to math knowledge needed. I feel like most people, even the worst at math, know when to use certain operations even if they couldn't solve the equation they wrote.

You don’t need to know math or physics to build a house. Sure, it can help if you know those things, but it’s not essential.

Same goes with programming. Math and programming are two separate skill sets, but knowing one can probably help with the other.

Also, a question for you. Why do you want to do Common Lisp? If you’re skeptical about your abilities I recommend to start with a more common programming language (like Python, Java, C#). Easier to find good learning resources.

You can definitely learn basic levels of programming without getting too deep into the math, enough to put together simple programs that can automate small tasks.

The issue is that math is incredibly important for enterprise level programming, particularly for optimization. Programs you write for yourself can be slow, inefficient beasts that hog way more resources than they need. If you wanted to write code as a job though, you'd need to be able to find the line between speed and accuracy, and that can require some complex math.

I used to hate statistics classes in college since they were very focused on what the formulas were and how to do them manually. It was tedious and boring. However, in my Master in Data Science I ended up loving those classes. It was no longer what the formulas were and how to make them. The computer did all that for us in a single function. It was about how to apply them, what logical conditions are needed and how they can break. When moving away from the numeric side of math into the symbolic and logical side I loved it lots more. That may be the case with you

Unless you want to go into advanced physics or math as a career, programming is not math heavy at all. Graphics programming uses a lot of math but it’s mostly vector math, matrix transformations and trigonometry.

Yes. Some people are too dumb to eat without someone's help.

Can you follow Dave Touretzky's book? The 1990 PDF version is free.

It’s pure logics and some maths. I suck al logics so I’m not good at programming. But anyway I try to learn to do basic stuff. I won’t use the word “dumb” tho.

Being bad at math does not make you dumb. I failed math at school, and thought I will fail computer science.

I had very hard time in calculus 1 and 2, but appreantly I'm great at discrete mathematics. Introduction to mathematical logic was so fun, I took an advanced course in temporal logic.

Finished the degrees second in my year. Got into a multidisciplinary masters program and finished that too.

I'm now the guy that gets the problems others failed to solve in the lab.

On another note, the person I got to know that is best at learning math, sucks at every other subject in life. He can read math books cover to cover and then use it even a year later. He can't prooerlly feed him self, not from home made meals his mom packed for him as a student and not shopping from the store. If you can take food from the the refrigerator into your plate without making a huge mess or poisoning your self, you are already ahead in life.

tl;dr being bad at math doesn't make you dumb. School level math has almost nothing to do with programming and Uni level math.

I've done basic programming and I find it very tedious and boring. I was good at math in junior and high school, but I really find it isn't all that math-centric. It's more a question of how you are at tolerating repetitious data entry.

I've often thought that I am.

I find that I understand most of the things when I sit down and do a lesson or exercise, but the problem I have is that I don't stick with it. The gulf between where I am and what constitutes useful programming feels insurmountable, and it drains the motivation right out of me until I wander off and forget all about it.

No unless you're terribly bad with basic algebra and discreet math. When people that interested with programming say they're bad at math, they usually mean they're bad with calculus.

I know I am.

You might have to learn and work slower, and spend more time learning any underlying math, but no, I would reject the idea that someone doesn't have the mental capacity to code.

Try start with How to design programs 2nd which has a online version. The authors believe everyone could have fun programming and so am I.

Most of the time, you just don't need that much math to write codes and to be a good application developer.

I had bad grades in maths. I do programming myself. Not for a living but out of passion.

They're not necessarily related one to another. Sure, there is maths involved, but it's not integral. What is integral, is digital logic. That is the most fundamental aspect.

Depending what you don’t like about math, it might or might not be an indicator. If you like problem solving and understanding why math works the way it works, but hate the rote repetition a lot of schools use to teach it, then you’ll fit right in. That’s how I was at that age. (Disclaimer: I’m old now. They’ve changed the way they teach math a few times I think. I’m not sure if my experience is directly comparable to kids in school these days)

Similarly, don’t look at schools that teach Computer Science and conflate that with what it’s like to be a developer. Most real dev work is totally different. CS fundamentals help at times, but aren’t as big of a deal as CS programs would have you believe. (Again, I think there’s a wider variety of educational options these days too. In my day you had to get a CS degree just to get a recruiter to talk to you, even though it was mostly inapplicable).

Why are you interested in learning lisp? Some hobby that requires it? A potential career? Tell us more about the career and maybe we can share knowledge about how mathematical it is.

I think anyone can be too dumb for anything. Personally, there are many things that I feel like I am too dumb for. Specifically things that require artistic ability or emotional thinking. Even as a kid I find subjective topics completely baffling. I always loved math because I was either right or wrong, and I liked science because my hypothesis was some variation of right or wrong. Could I learn an instrument, sure, but by the time I get any good I could have gotten substantially better at something that clicks for me.

Don't get me wrong, if you find it interesting and have passion for it, that could probably overcome what you are lacking with enough time.

I feel you, OP: when I started college I was afraid too that I was too bad at math for programming, but it turns out you just have to be good at logic, understanding how things work, breaking down problems and finding solutions, all of which have nothing to do with math ;)