this post was submitted on 08 Apr 2024
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Ally in training... (lemmy.socdojo.com)
submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by ShellMonkey@lemmy.socdojo.com to c/lgbtq_plus
 

Hey all,

So I'm looking to take an active step here to understand better some things that my straight/white/cis/middle-aged male brain has had a tough time wrapping itself around, particularly in the gender identity front.

I'm working from the understanding of physical sex as the bio-bits and the expressed identity as being separate things, so that part is easy enough.

What's confusing to me though is like this. If we take gender as being an expression of your persona, a set of traits that define one as male, female, or some combination of both then what function does a title/pronoun serve? To assume that some things are masculine or feminine traits seems to put unneeded rigidity to things.

We've had men or women who enjoy things traditionally associated with the other gender for as long as there have been people I expect. If that's the case then what purpose does the need for a gender title serve?

I'll admit personally questioning some things like fairness in cis/trans integrated sports, but that's outside what I'm asking here. Some things like bathroom laws are just society needing to get over itself in thinking our personal parts are all that special.

Certainly not trying to stir up any fights, just trying to get some input from people that have a different life experience than myself. Is it really as simple as a preferred title?

Edit: Just wanted to take a second to thank all the people here who took the time to write some truly extensive thoughts and explanations, even getting into some full on citation-laden studies into neurology that'll give me plenty to digest. You all have shown a great deal of patience with me updating some thinking from the bio/social teachings of 20+ years back. 🙂

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[–] knightly@pawb.social 11 points 7 months ago (45 children)

Lets see if I can explain this clearly enough on the first try.

So your question is, "If we take gender as being an expression of your persona, a set of traits that define one as male, female, or some combination of both then what function does a title/pronoun serve?"

Well, this is both weirdly complicated and absurdly simple. Gender isn't just a set of personal traits, but also a social concept. In that framing, titles and pronouns are a signal that one gets from other people in society that tells them how their visible presentation is being perceived and interpreted.

One can relate this to the social distinction between the nobles and commoners of yore. Even though the only visible differences between the two groups are their attire, for a person that sees themselves as a member of the aristocracy to be spoken to as if they were a commoner can be a grave insult.

Likewise, most people find it discomforting when their innate sense of their own gender is contradicted by the people around them. Specifying our pronouns/titles when we introduce ourselves can provide context for folks who might have otherwise assumed someone's gender incorrectly.

[–] ShellMonkey@lemmy.socdojo.com 3 points 7 months ago (24 children)

I suppose my followup to that would be what gives someone a specific sense of gender? To say 'I am a woman' is taking societies interpretation of woman as being right. What differentiates that from 'I am a man who likes womanly things'?

What separates the 'tomboy' woman from a trans-masc?

(Please excuse any terminology missteps if I use things wrong too)

[–] LassCalibur 4 points 7 months ago

I suppose my followup to that would be what gives someone a specific sense of gender?

As a binary trans woman my very being in and for myself imparts upon me a capacity for directly revealed self-knowledge regarding my gender, which is to say how I wish to be as a presence and present myself to others within the world.

To say ‘I am a woman’ is taking societies interpretation of woman as being right.

Perish the thought! In general however I might reveal my gender it is as an invitation to others for them to interact with me and understand me as a woman. Try to think of this as less a matter of being right or wrong and more one of how you and another might best both enjoy your interactions together.

What differentiates that from ‘I am a man who likes womanly things’?

Gender does! It is literally that simple.

What separates the ‘tomboy’ woman from a trans-masc?

They would through their understanding of their own genders which grants truth or grants falsehood to statements regarding their gender.

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