this post was submitted on 10 Feb 2024
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[–] Skua@kbin.social 44 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

If this war was about having NATO on their doorstep, why is it an invasion of a non-NATO country twenty years after the first neighbours of Russia joined NATO? It's never seriously discussed because it's either a lie or unfathomably stupid, and whichever of those two it is doesn't much matter.

Just for a second, imagine you're a neutral country in eastern Europe. Russia has been fucking with Georgia and Moldova since the fall of the Soviet Union, and now it invades Ukraine for the second time within a decade. Russia has never touched a NATO country despite bordering several of them for literally decades. And then Russia acts all shocked when you say you want into NATO

[–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 15 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Yeah and Russia protested strongly every time. But Ukraine was their red line. Just because you didn't read it in western media doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I don't condone the invasion but it was predictable and a colossal "failure" of diplomacy if you look at it charitably. At worst it was a long term plan to force Russia into a conflict with the aid of western media to obscure the reason why this war was happening. Russia is acting just like the US would.

[–] Skua@kbin.social 27 points 9 months ago (1 children)

So invading Ukraine fixes what for Russia, exactly? The fastest way to make more of Russia's neighbours join NATO is to show them that they're safer in NATO. Like Finland.

Ukrainians mostly weren't interested in joining NATO until Russia took Crimea. Russia pushed Ukraine towards NATO.

[–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 14 points 9 months ago (2 children)

"Ukraine applied to integrate with a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008. Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych". Then the Euromaiden protests happened. Then Crimea etc.

It's pretty safe to assume that both Russia and the US meddled in the respective election through NGOs and whatnot. My point is that these are geopolitical games which both sides play and which should be reported as such. Then we'd have a chance to protest for peace negotiations. But as is there is an overwhelming amount of pro-war sentiment.

[–] Skua@kbin.social 19 points 9 months ago

Public support for joining NATO among polled Ukrainians was very clearly the minority up until Russia invaded.

But as is there is an overwhelming amount of pro-war sentiment.

There's an overwhelming amount of anti-invasion sentiment. People that support arming Ukraine support Ukraine's right to not have chunks carved out of it just because its neighbour has a bigger army.

[–] Vilian@lemmy.ca 4 points 9 months ago

they couldn't join NATO because of crimea, explain what they really want

[–] Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I guess ignoring how Ukrainians ran the russian puppet heading their country out of the country just before the Crimean invasion of 2014 is convenient for your point.

Appeasement does not work. It has never worked. It didnt work in Sudetenland, it didnt work in Crimea, and it would never have worked with Donbas, either.

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