Environment

3925 readers

2 users here now

Environmental and ecological discussion, particularly of things like weather and other natural phenomena (especially if they're not breaking news).

See also our Nature and Gardening community for discussion centered around things like hiking, animals in their natural habitat, and gardening (urban or rural).

This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.

founded 2 years ago

MODERATORS

Degrowth and prisoner's dilemma (reddthat.com)

submitted 11 months ago by clehaxze@reddthat.com to c/environment

6 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I've been tried reading about how degrowth can safe the planet - personally I don't buy stuff I don't need, uses public transport extensively, etc. it happens to me naturally - But I don't see how people and countries can apply degrowth without fear that others in our capitalist world would take advantage.

For example. let's say the suddenly the UK decided to degeowth and stop making so much investments into the industrial sector. The international investments would simply go to countries that would accept the investments. It feels like degrowth is stuck in a prisoner's dilemma. And there's no obvious way around it.

How can this be solved?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] millie 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

It seems like the framing of the prisoner's dilemma is being used.. a lot. But it's kind of a fundamentally flawed outlook that completely negates individual autonomy.

Like, you've got this situation where two people are stripped of their power by some ostensible authority, and both options involve acknowledging that authority. Either you cooperate and give them the information they want or you don't, yeah? It's framed as the prisoner being powerless, and turned against the other prisoner due to this poorly strategic move.

But there are so many other options that preserve the autonomy of the prisoner. They could implicate someone completely unrelated, or otherwise give bad information. They could repeat the word 'lawyer' until a lawyer shows up. Hell, they could try to attack their captors or escape!

But none of these are put onto the table, because people buy into this authoritarian mindset without even realizing it. They see a prisoner and an authority and take that as fact from the get go.

So where's the 'authority' in this scenario? Simply put, capitalism. The pressure to keep expanding and accept the status quo that we always have to get bigger and bigger. And as such, even the question of degrowth is being framed on that authority's terms.

Yes, being less focused on wringing out every drop of profit will cause some business deals to move to countries that are still focused on that. But, like, the whole point is that we're not focusing on all that commerce that wandered off somewhere else. A society that's less focused on commerce than most in the 21st century will simply be a healthier, happier, more comfortable place to live. Focusing on commerce is so toxic. It ruins all the nice things we have, it screws up our relationships with one another, and it provides incentive to divide and destroy to make a profit. It takes all our human motivations and fixes them on greed. But if you don't have that? I mean, you may have a little less random trash and e-waste lying around, but I'd be glad to bet on things being a lot less shitty.

Want to show the world to let go of its obsession with commerce? Believe in it and lead by example. It'll do the rest itself.