this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2023
77 points (100.0% liked)
World News
22059 readers
26 users here now
Breaking news from around the world.
News that is American but has an international facet may also be posted here.
Guidelines for submissions:
- Where possible, post the original source of information.
- If there is a paywall, you can use alternative sources or provide an archive.today, 12ft.io, etc. link in the body.
- Do not editorialize titles. Preserve the original title when possible; edits for clarity are fine.
- Do not post ragebait or shock stories. These will be removed.
- Do not post tabloid or blogspam stories. These will be removed.
- Social media should be a source of last resort.
These guidelines will be enforced on a know-it-when-I-see-it basis.
For US News, see the US News community.
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I find statements like this pretty fatuous.
Ethically all humans have a responsibility to see that these civilians won't starve or lack medicine.
Hamas is hoarding it and won't share with civilians.
Israel is also refusing to share with the hapless civilians
it's trying to prevent the rest of the world from sharing either.
It's stupid to say I'm not allowed to give a homeless guy a hot meal because there's a rich guy nearby.
Hamas is their government, and as such, has a responsibility to those it governs.
And the supplies are literally under the feet of the people who need them. Not something dependent on outside shipment.
Hamas made a decision to start a war, and now they're choosing to let people suffer for PR points instead of moving supplies up and out of their tunnels to the people.
Eh, this is the kind of thing people say to absolve themselves.
"Sure that neighbour kid's getting starved and abused by his parents but it's his parents' responsibility to feed him, not mine".
"Sure, the Rohingya are getting genocided by the Junta but after all the Junta is technically their government who are responsible for their safety, not us".
Last time anyone voted in Hamas was 17 years ago. Meanwhile literally half the Gazans are aged 18 or younger. Far too younger to have voted for Hamas let alone for this nightmare.
If you just send in food, Hamas will take the bulk of it, same way they supplied the tunnels in the first place. Only real way to solve the problem is to get rid of Hamas.
this is just not a well founded assumption. humanitarian aid was going into Gaza, and was being distributed to the people there before Israel cut off the supply. you're trying to engineer a false dichotomy, where the only solution to the ongoing humanitarian crisis caused in part by the denial of necessary resources is more denial of necessary resources. like, just think for like a moment. Hamas has a surplus of resources to supply their own forces. they aren't reliant on humanitarian aid. not allowing food and other resources to get into Gaza only negatively affects the civilian population, and does very little to harm the supposed actual target of this indiscriminate violence. like, even if nearly all of it was just taken by Hamas, the quantity that remained would almost certainly still help innocent people survive this conflict, and that's a worthwhile pursuit in and of itself.
but whatever, i bet you'll just move the goalpost again. we cannot act based on what Hamas "should" be doing if they were acting responsibly. Hamas isn't taking responsibility for the death and destruction being waged against the Palestinian people, they aren't providing the resources they have, they aren't distributing them to those who need them. and seeing that situation, we should act to prevent the suffering of these people who are not being served by the government that is supposed to represent them, instead of actively preventing aid from reaching into the region.
So let us send even more. I'd rather civillians no longer starved. Even if it means bad actors take some too.
We saw the flaws with the aid sanctions against Ethiopia earlier this year. Some corrupt officials were re-routing some of the aid intended for the famine in Tigray. But when the UN and US halted all food aid in response, starvation deaths in Ethiopia rose.
I understand that Israel don't mind starving the civilian population of Gaza as collatoral damage in their war with Hamas, but I do mind. The fact remains that starvation of civilians during war is illegal under international law. And I support that law.
Does that include evacuating all Israelis from Gaza, then mass murdering everyone left who could ever dream of joining Hamas?
Because it seems to be what Israel is aiming at, and there are some words for it, like "genocide".
You are searching morality in something, where there is none. This is urban warfare - WAR - and quite frankly - not letting Resources through Israeli border crossings - is nothing compared to things done in other wars. Especially as Egypt could deliver aid into Gaza from their border - But they chose not to.
@dumdum666 that's a hard disagree from me. I think you fundamentally misunderstand what ethics and morals are. Either you believe something or you don't.
If you come upon some people raping some kid in an alley that doesn't mean it's somehow okay for you stand there and just watch because "this is rape and quite frankly worse things were done in other rapes".
The argument "other people could have chosen to help and didn't, therefore it's fine for me to not help either" doesn't cut it.
If you, personally, think it's morally fine to starve civilians and children that's one thing - luckily many disagree which is why it's deemed a war crime.
But you should own your views on that. Don't try to argue that there's some special ☆magical place☆ where there's no such thing as right or wrong and ethics suddenly don't exist.
All right, then take a plane to Egypt and start to personally deliver that aid, if you just can’t stand by as the moral and ethical pure person you are. No? Took your mouth too full? Maybe you are a Keyboard Warrior after all?
It is a war crime if it is actually done to starve the civilians, yes. And you love to throw around accusations, don’t you?
Why aren’t you fighting that the women and young children can flee - to Egypt or maybe even into Israel? That would actually be useful, don’t you think?
@dumdum666
If you think physically being in a situation is a prerequisite for caring about it, I don't know where this conversation can go. You seem to be veering into personal attacks.
None of this is a valid criticism of my point. I think it might be time for us to stop, since we are clearly talking past one another.
The guy accusing me of condoning war crimes is now not happy that I called him a Keyboard Warrior.
You are right in one thing: there is no sense in keeping up the „discussion“
Everything you said is wrong. Egypt is trying to let aid through, Israel has repeatedly bombed the roads in each time they're fixed; preventing aid. Also, as you so aptly pointed out, it's war. The first thing a functioning country does in war is ration food so the soldiers can stay fed; even if it costs civilian lives. This has happened many times. That Israel is purposely starving civilians knowing full well it won't affect the soldiers, just for propaganda, is frankly evil.