this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
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Written by Kirsten Beyer & Davy Perez

Directed by Eduardo Sanchez


LoglineReturning to a planet that dredges up tragic memories, Captain Pike and his landing party find themselves forgetting everything, including their own identities as he confronts a ghost from his past.

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[–] khaosworks@startrek.website 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Annotations up at https://startrek.website/post/282663.

This was a very TOS episode yet in terms of feel.

The dialogue could easily have come from the mouths of the TOS cast, and the situation on the planet reminiscent of officers violating the Prime Directive like in TOS: “The Omega Glory” or “Bread and Circuses”. Even Mount's delivery when on the planet was Shatner-esque.

I can readily imagine Kirk, McCoy and a random redshirt or Chekov on the planet in Pike, M’Benga and La’An’s place, and Sulu pulling it together like Ortegas.

[–] StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I agree that it has a genuine TOS feel.

Especially as it gets back to the mid 20th century thought experiments around how the mind functions, but informed my more current understanding of memory, cognitive function and emotion.

I wasn’t quite sure the balance of the scenes was what it could have been, but it was good to see all of the main cast having their moments. I was nonetheless frustrated that Number One was quickly sidelined once again.

Also I was uncomfortable with how far Pike was willing to go in his aggression in order to get information from Zack. I believe we’re supposed to feel that, but it did feel that it was pushed just that moment longer to drive home the point that Pike’s deep ethics are what keeps him in check, not his emotions. It also tracks with his anger and how he even used it to break the thrall of the Talosians in The Cage.

But overall, I liked it. It’s a deeper and more challenging episode than it may seem on the surface, first watch. I suspect it will be one that stands up over a longer horizon.

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[–] Disgustoid@startrek.website 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wow, these SNW writers really bring it each week, don't they? Not to say every episode is perfect but I've found every single one to be very entertaining and exactly what I want out of Star Trek in 2023. The combination of standalone stories mixed with underlying character development and arcs is perfect.

As for this week, the idea of encountering a planet that could make you forget everything was weirdly creepy, if not a bit implausible. Even if this wasn't her showcase episode, I grinned at Ortega's "I AM THE PILOT!" moment. Also enjoyed the away team being out of sorts on the planet which I thought was well done and not an action overdose like the season opener.

[–] theothersparrow@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago

SNW really is a masterclass in balancing episodic and narrative storytelling.

I'd love to attend a workshop/lecture with Goldsman, Myers, et al.

[–] IcePenguino@startrek.website 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Memory loss is one of the scariest things in the known universe. This is a horror episode to me.

[–] deepthaw@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 year ago

Similar to how we refer to TOS episodes as "The Nazi Planet" and "The Gangster Planet" this one will be "The Alzheimer's Planet."

[–] crazycanadianloon@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Ok, at the risk of sounding like a filthy casual, it's only now when I'm digging into Memory Alpha that I realized we're finally getting visualization of what Pike was so miserable about in TOS the Cage. I was like, why does Rigel VII sound so familiar...

This is the kind of retcon I live for!!

[–] deepthaw@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 year ago

I like that the original away mission failing wasn't some weird magical thing - it was just a mission that went bad in a fairly mundane way.

[–] Mezentine@startrek.website 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That’s probably one of my favorite episodes of the series as a viewing experience, it was pretty entertaining. I don’t think I quite track…the message, though? In the span of about three minutes we get explicitly told that for Pike and Ortegas the memory loss could be revealing experience that identified the core of the self, while for their friend on the planet it was an obscuring experience that robbed him of things he didn’t know were important. You can explain away the difference with plot logic pretty easily, but thematically it’s a bit weird to juxtapose them right next to each other

[–] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Was the high pitched ringing sound really necessary, especially for that long each time? That almost physically hurt and it scared the fsck out of my cat.

[–] sammydee@universeodon.com 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@BorgDrone @ValueSubtracted As a person with tinnitus, it seemed important to me. Let me know exactly what was going on. It's also very common in video games, for example when someone is dazed by a nearby explosion. Again it conveyed a lot of meaning to me and helped explain what they were going through.

[–] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Sure, but there is a difference between having that sound at low volume for 2 seconds and blasting it through all 10 speakers for 20.

[–] CeruleanRuin@lemmy.one 6 points 1 year ago

Ooh, look at this guy with ten speakers! Fancy pants over here! : P

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[–] Continuumguy@startrek.website 9 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Thoughts as I watch:

  • So, I'm wondering: is Cayuga a reference to Rod Serling? He named his production company that in reference to the lake in New York.

  • Relationships suck when you are a Starfleet captain who knows your destiny to one day be in a beepie chair.

  • Rigel 7, a deep cut!

  • We have gone (ZERO) days without some sort of Starfleet prime directive problem.

  • Finally, some Ortegas action!

  • "THE HAT IS SUPREME." I'm going to have to use that in conversation.

  • Oh man, at least she keeps the hat.

  • "Subdermal universal translators" are the new translation microbes

  • Oh boy, they have starfleet tech.

  • Ah, we've got a good old-fashioned "Federation citizen takes over a world" episode!

  • "This is a cage." Heh.

  • Forgetting is a scary side effect for a planet.

  • I get that they were only on there for like four hours, but shouldn't they have noticed stuff like this their last visit? Or maybe... THEY LOST

  • "Welcome to Memento/50 First Dates Planet"

  • Can still remember how to fight!

  • So I'm guessing Spock is probably one of the more resistant to all of this due to his Vulcan-ness.

  • Man, La'An is having a REALLY bad pair of weeks.

  • Captain Pike even without his memories is still Captain Pike. Makes sense.

  • Okay, I guess Spock isn't immune.

  • Glad to see the Connie class had GPS.

  • I gotta admit, I feel like Pelia would be good in this episode given just how many memories she has to lose and how many skills she has.

  • SHE FLIES THE SHIP

  • The ship's computer is great this week.

  • Damn, that is some tough silverware, standing up to phaser blasts.

  • Is it just me or is that a fresco or whatever of Alexander the Great... Zac-ized?

  • Okay, that logic doesn't quite seem sound, but whatever.

  • So, uhm, be careful about telling her about the Beepy-chair, Chris.

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[–] deepthaw@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This episode should have started in media res, with the away team already on planet and having lost their memories. Once we got the explainer as to what was happening, then we could return to the Enterprise to show the growing crisis there, and finally wrap everything up as the episode already did.

[–] bobfett@lemmy.tedomum.net 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No.... I juste have a hate for most of the Trek episodes starting with a catastrophic situation and a blackout with a "XX hours ago..." captions...

Top easy writing.... At least, they build the tension here

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[–] theinspectorst@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

At the start of the episode, when Ortegas was getting ready for the away mission, I thought this episode would have the scene from the start of the season 2 trailer where she (gleefully) pilots a shuttle down to a planet.

At least we know she will eventually get to go on an away mission!

I've been waiting for the crew explore a new planet. Hoping there's more of these episodes than less

[–] astroturds@startrek.website 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A very TOS episode that I thoroughly enjoyed!

Can we let La'an have a few happy moments in this season? That woman must be riddled with PTSD by now.

It was great to finally get Pike back! Has he ever told his girlfriend that he's almost certainly going to be disabled? What a pickle he's in. I think if I were in his shoes I would have let the relationship end. The guilt must be driving him insane.

I feel like they might be messing around with the timelines so that they can save Pike from his horrendous fate and just say it's an alternate timeline compared to TOS. Normally I'd be against that, but it's Pike and I love him so much that I almost want them to do it.

[–] StillPaisleyCat@startrek.website 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The nature of a time crystal is that it’s a fixed event in every timeline forward.

Once Pike drew the crystal on Borath, it was locked in.

[–] astroturds@startrek.website 5 points 1 year ago

Thanks, I should know that, I've seen every episode!

In a kind of sad way he does have a happy ending. I just don't want it to happen to him. Poor old Pike!

[–] flamingmongoose@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Enjoyed this very much, the tone was very creepy. Reminded me of the psychological horror episodes only TNG really did.

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[–] Jon-H558@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean its a little far fetched a simple helmet protects the kmal yet the enterprise hull let it through no problems (until pack modulates the shield), but wont let that get in the way of a good story.

[–] echo@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 year ago

their helmets are made of a special ore that blocks the radiation. it's a goofy explanation, but there is a reason why they act differently than the enterprise hull

[–] AuroraBorealis@pawb.social 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's a common trope that the away teams really shouldn't be landing in these planets without any idea what's down there without an alien style hazmat suit and here we go, another example :) I GUESS they get a pass because they were here before and the effects didn't happen because they were not here long enough

also really strange they don't confirm that people were dead? Or try and go back and get their bodies which might have equipment/ com badges /might even be alien (Spock was there and he bleeds green), maybe starfleet shouldn't be so careless about what they leave behind...

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No EV suit would have protected them, either - the Enterprise was affected as well.

[–] khaosworks@startrek.website 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

They handled that subtly - I was wondering why they didn't raise shields against the radiation, but the shimmering impact of the debris field seen when Ortegas was in her quarters showed that shields were indeed up, so that mean the radiation could get through shields. Then it was mentioned that Spock tweaked the shield harmonics at the end - I guess he didn't earlier because he was already affected.

I think at the time they lacked sufficient information to modulate the shields, which is why moving the ship into the astroids seemed logical.

[–] 1Fuji2Taka3Nasubi@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • Still somewhat annoyed that there is no seat belt on the shuttle, even if it is to maintain continuity with TOS. M'Benga looked like he was going to bang his head and get a concussion when they were landing.

  • La'an: They won't see us coming.
    Zac: We totally saw you from the other side of the planet a hemisphere away.

  • What was Zac trying to accomplish? He lured them there with the Starfleet Delta, but he was not going to hitch a ride home. He expected whatever ship that comes to inspect to... forget and go away, or suffer some disastrous result when the crew become unable to function? Why not just stay low and be king if he wasn't planning to leave?

[–] khaosworks@startrek.website 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Zac didn’t intend for Starfleet to notice the delta. He was content to just stay on Rigel VII as High Lord Zacarias, thinking that Starfleet would never return to the planet because of the debris field and the radiation. But then the Kalar used the delta as a symbol and it got spotted.

PIKE: Zac. We saw your message, the, um... the Delta in the garden. It's why we came. Isn't that why you did it?

ZAC: The people here adopted it as my symbol. I should have known better. It's all getting torn out tomorrow.

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[–] Basilisk@mtgzone.com 9 points 1 year ago

It wasn't intentional. The Starfleet Delta was something Zac's followers had done to honour him, it wasn't intended as a lure.

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[–] Tired8281@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't understand that dude, needling the dude with no memory who was beating on him, then acting all surprised when that same dude puts a gun on him. Like, what was he trying to do? It seemed like he was trying to get Pike to kill him, but then he wasn't. Wtf?

[–] crazycanadianloon@startrek.website 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The way I read the scene was that he was so high off his power that he thought with the tables turned and Pike having no power that he would have the upper hand. But Pike managed to subdue him and High Lord Zacarias was all of a sudden staring down the barrel of a phaser rifle and all of a sudden wasn't so confident that the Pike he knew, who would lower the weapon once the combatant was subdued, was still there. I think the sudden switch was just an "OH shit, what have I done?" moment.

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[–] FormerGameDev@midwest.social 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Outside of Pike and Batel's relationship, are there any points in this episode that look to connect to anything else in the currently ongoing plotline in SNW? I didn't really notice anything, it seems like this might be the most standalone episode.

[–] khaosworks@startrek.website 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Batel’s promotion was nixed by Judge Advocate Pasalk because of her conduct during Una’s trial in “Ad Astra Per Aspera”.

M’Benga mentions that the reason he and La’An were along was because Pike needed people who could fight without phasers (as per “The Broken Circle” and “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow”).

That’s basically it, I think.

[–] deepthaw@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

M'Benga

You mean "Dr. Seen-Some-Shit."

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[–] cyberic@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I wrote this as I was watching:

  • Since when have Batel and Pike have a history? Was she in season 1?
  • I wish they had a tone warning at the beginning of the episode, also I thought the tones went for a little too long each time.
  • Lol this is the anti-Spock world. "Your emotions are your truth." Maybe Spock should have been on the planet surface as well.
  • Did Spock forget how to read?
  • Did the Enterprise not feel the effects in the previous mission? Did they forget to record it or make personal logs?
[–] FormerGameDev@midwest.social 12 points 1 year ago

If I remember correctly, the very first scene of S1E1 was Batel waking up in Pike's bed, so.. yeah :D

[–] sammydee@universeodon.com 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@cyberic @ValueSubtracted She was in S1E1, scene 1. She was trying to get him to leave his cabin and get back to work.

She was in "A Quality of Mercy" as well.

[–] Randy_Bobandy@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago

For the last one: Spock stated that the previous mission they hadn't stayed as long as they were when the effects started happening.

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[–] gibberish_driftwood@lemmy.nz 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I've only managed to see this episode once, but something I didn't understand was Spock's decision to try and hide in the debris field. At this point they believed the planet was the source of the problem, but it seemed mostly a guess that the debris field might shield them.

Wouldn't the most logical action have been to get as far away from the planet as reasonably possible until the effects appeared to subside? I know Una made a point that they had crew down there, but it's not as if they can't return more cautiously and with a clearer understanding of what's happening. You're also helpless to help your landing party if you're completely incapacitated yourself.

Have I missed something important?

[–] theothersparrow@lemmy.one 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My headcanon is that the radiation had already begun affecting his decision-making.

It's a stretch, I know.

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