I think you've got tunnel vision. Federated universe makes perfect sense in the context it's been built. You being a fan of fungi is not a good enough reason to pollute the already "difficult" (I disagree it is) concept.
this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2023
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I think maybe if OP is writing solarpunk fiction, then it could be useful. However, outside of that - I totally agree. We have a descriptive term that's best to be consistent with so people can understand it.
I'm not a fan of fungi, I just think its a good metaphor for what ActivityPub does.
But I see your point: fediverse makes sense in the context, however:
- The context in which the Fediverse was created is one that should be overcome. We don't want walled gardens, in a world without them, the term Fediverse doesn't make sense anymore. I think what we need to achieve as a society is a true implementation of the "social web". And federation is not a main thing here, it's just a by-product that could make it work.
- I still think it would be great to have a handy metaphor that basically explains itself and that makes sense without having to explain centralized social networks first
For me it runs down to this: how do you explain the Fediverse to someone when walled gardens don't exist anymore? Its a term created with respect to the old times. I think its contraproductive. The term "social web" is much better imo.
I 100% disagree with you.
Why?
Why an alternative term?
If you want something that carries more meaning then those proposed terms are maybe not the best as a mycelium network does not represent very well what the fediverse does.
If you want some more practical comparison then maybe a network of scribes in monastery libraries that copy texts and exchange them via a postal network?
Why an alternative term?
I find the term fediverse irritating and I'm currently writing a short story about the Fediverse.
If you want something that carries more meaning then those proposed terms are maybe not the best as a mycelium network does not represent very well what the fediverse does.
For me, ActivityPub does for the web about the same thing that fungi do in the forest: they allow communication about the content in the web without a central entity.
If you want some more practical comparison then maybe a network of scribes in monastery libraries that copy texts and exchange them via a postal network?
But they aren't sharing only text. Also: the monk doesn't exist. The communication works dezentralized through a protocol.
I find the term fediverse irritating
Why?
-
Why universe? It has nothing to do with virtual reality and it sounds very sealed. But what we currently see with the introduction to ActivityPub to Wordpress for example is that it actually becomes a part of the Web. Its more similar to the web than it is to virtual universes.
-
The concept "federated" only makes sense in the current context. We have centralized social networks. They are bad. We want something else and think federation could do it. But it would be nice to have a metaphor that somehow stands on its own legs without relying on the old system. And the main thing that ActivityPub brings us is that the web becomes a social place.
That's why I find "social web" better. It's more future-oriented and less defensive.
The universe sounds sealed to you? Do you know what the universe is? Also what does that have to do with VR?
The universe sounds sealed to you? Do you know what the universe is? Also what does that have to do with VR?
If you put it that way of course not. But look at it that way: people are in their own universe. They are a universe away from other parts of the web. I think that sounds pretty sealed. Also counterquestion: why universe to begin with. Why not web or net? I feel like it was chosen just because it sounds cool.
If you want a graphic, that's how I see it (the black lines symbolize pulling for engagement, e.g. through links):
The right one resembles much more of what I think of the so-called Fediverse.
The universe contains everything and everything is connected to everything else via gravity.
The phrases you chose are using the universe's vastness to talk about distance.
Ok I think I'm not sure what you mean
No, I meant it like: there are corporate networks, each are their own universe. There is the fediverse: also its own universe. That's sealed.
What now if the other universes are gone? A universe of federated services doesn't make sense if you have no other universes.
There's only one universe. Those networks would be galaxies. But galaxies all apply force to each other via gravity.
Ok, but gravity isn't communication
- But 'universe' doesn't necessarily relate to virtual reality either. In fact, 'universe' is probably the least sealed term you could use, given that as far as we're aware, the universe encompasses everything.
- 'Federated' has been a term in IT for a long, long time, and has always been used to refer to two extant systems with a protocol in common. In this case, it's (for example) Mastodon and Lemmy, communicating via ActivityPub; but you could equally federate two Active Directory instances.
- Every social network is it's own universe. So basically if you speak about the multiverse of social networks universe sounds pretty sealed.
- Fair enough, I'm just not sure it's THE defining feature of the social web that I have in mind. For me it's more the dezentral aspect and that's for me best represented with fungi
The ActivityPub network is not a diffuse mesh that propagates basic info. Its more of a copy, store and forwarding system, and the instance servers (and admins 😏 ) would be the monks in my previous analogy.
Why do you find it irritating?
-
Why universe? It has nothing to do with virtual reality and it sounds very sealed. But what we currently see with the introduction to ActivityPub to Wordpress for example is that it actually becomes a part of the Web. Its more similar to the web than it is to virtual universes.
-
The concept “federated” only makes sense in the current context. We have centralized social networks. They are bad. We want something else and think federation could do it. But it would be nice to have a metaphor that somehow stands on its own legs without relying on the old system. And the main thing that ActivityPub brings us is that the web becomes a social place.
That’s why I find “social web” better. It’s more future-oriented and less defensive.
Regarding the rest: the ActivityPub network is not a diffuse mesh that propagates basic info. Its more of a copy, store and forwarding system, and the instance servers (and admins 😏 ) would be the monks in my previous analogy.
Ok, now I get it. My bad. However: the analogy misses the main part of the Fediverse: the protocol. Where do you get the monks the messages from?
I edited my reply since you already answer the first part elsewhere.
The protocol seems not that relevant as in the end it is just a means to exchange text without relying on centralized infrastructure. A snail-mail postal service works mostly the same, although regional mail sorting centers are somewhat centralized and could be compared to fediverse relay servers (Lemmy doesn't have those yet).
For me the protocol is the most important part. Making social interaction and networking work dezentrally in the web is a huge deal.
None of this makes sense to me at all. There's nothing natural or biological about the fediverse. I think you're assigning solarpunk values to the fediverse more than is appropriate. This is only a niche within the fediverse.
Technical innovations are often named after representations from nature or society. Take the paper bin on windows or the whole file system. These are all metaphors for complex concepts.
Could be that federation will be the metaphor to go but I think there are better ones out there.
I run a fediverse server. It gobbles 60Watts, paid for by my energy company who promise they're switching to solar, but aren't there yet.
I get the impression that the fediverse is an adhoc mixture of different email servers talking to each other. Energy-free is a nice ideal, but not a reality.
I'ma gonna go with "adhoc-net"
I think it's bigger than that. The verge says it will create an open social graph IN the web. I think it could have great potential to transform society for the better.
Your explanation makes sense but I think it doesn't convey the full potential of it.
[From another comment]
I'm currently writing a short story about the Fediverse.
For literary purposes I would suggest Rhizoverse, based on Deleuze's and Guattari's Rhizome philosophical concept.
Ok, looks complicated :D But it sounds good. I will add it to my reading list. Thanks
Ok, looks complicated
Hehe, that's why I recommended it, it sounds fancy :P.
Fungal Web sounds the best/catchiest, imo
Honestly, staying away from fungal terms in general is probably for the best, we don't want people to associate with nft's
Ok thanks. I think I will take that :)