Assuming efficiency of ~4 miles per kWh (on the high end of current EV efficiency), that's a 200kWh battery. charging that in 10 minutes would require 1.2MW's of power, enough to power about 50-100 homes simultaneously. Now imagine a handful of vehicles charging simultaneously, consuming as much power as a small city.
this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2023
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Spread it over enough people and it's the same energy. For one person it's a much shorter charge. Over a population with random charging times it's the same consumption off the grid. The problem then becomes a distribution issue, not a production issue.
Likely these kind of chargers will be expensive and at supercharge stations. Homes will use lower over longer.periods as it's rare you want to pop home for 10 minutes needing a full charge.
This is a big step forward, no matter how you look at it.
It might be also useful for excess storage when we have wind and solar energy that the grid doesnt need. Being able to do so rapidly will mean a smaller array of batteries required for grod storage.
It's a big step forward IF it enters production.
As thevenin links elsewhere in the thread they've been promising this is "any day now" since 2010
I'm not sure people are going to be interested in paying for megawatt-capable chargers, anyway. There's a couple of sites near me that have old 50 kW chargers and new 250 kW chargers, and have higher prices on the 250s. I expect that sort of thing to continue - providers are going to want to cover their costs and higher powered chargers are more expensive to buy and operate.
Assuming efficiency of ~4 miles per kWh (on the high end of current EV efficiency)
Why should we assume this?
They are being charitable to Toyota along the path of estimating capacity. Why shouldn't that be assumed?
That would be impractical even for fleet vehicles.
Unless they're also going to announce the development of nuclear fusion in order to provide the necessary cheap energy, then I don't think this is going anywhere.
Some people might scoff at the 2027/28 timeline, but I doubt this is vaporware. Toyota is the world's biggest car maker, so their claims have some credibility.
Toyota's breakthrough is with mass-producing these types of batteries, they still face challenges in real world use - "Problems include the extreme sensitivity of the batteries to moisture and oxygen, as well as the mechanical pressure needed to hold them together to prevent the formation of dendrites, the metal filaments that can cause short circuits."
It's not vaporware, it's anti-EV FUD.
Don't buy one of those EVs, we're going to have much better EVs really soon now and you'll be stuck with something inferior. Same with their talk about hydrogen: EVs are just a fad, hydrogen is the future! ... and it'll be viable real soon now, so stick with gasoline until then!
Toyota is constantly in the news about battery advancements or hydrogen because it's defensive FUD to protect their fossil fuel vehicle sales.
They're also funding a liquid anhydrous ammonia powered car, as if hydrogen wasn't a terrible enough idea, let's power a car with an incredibly toxic chemical that has to be stored cryogenically or under pressure. What could go wrong?
The size of the company making the claim has no correlation to the veracity of the claim.
BP, Exxon, Shell spent decades claiming global warming wasn't real.
Philip Morris & British American Tobacco spent decades telling us smoking didnt cause cancer.
All of whom are or were as large as Toyota.
Look at their track record and judge their words against their actions.
Toyota has spent considerable sums over many years campaigning against Electric Vehicles.
https://electrek.co/2021/09/22/toyota-facing-boycotts-over-fight-slow-electric-vehicle-progress/
So should you believe a company that says it's about to table the next huge EV breakthrough when it fouht tooth and nail to slow that transition ?
Your choice, but I won't until I see something more substantial than press releases
I doubt they're using pressure to prevent the dendrites. Honda figured out a while back to separate the parts in some sort of polyplastic mix of some sort in order to prevent the formation. I bet toyota is also going more that route.
I don't think time affects a companies ability to reinvent physics. At the end of the day you are limited by the laws of nature
Toyota's been claiming solid state batteries are just around the corner for 13 years.
- 2010: Toyota unveils prototype LiCO2 solid state cell. Predicts use in hybrids.
- 2012: Toyota unveils prototype Li10GeP2S12 solid state cell. Predicts mass production of 1000-km EVs in 2015-2020.
- 2014: Toyota claims to have achieved 400Wh/L in solid state prototype cells. They adjust range estimates to 500 km.
- 2017: Toyota predicts commercialization 2020-2025.
- 2019: Toyota predicts it will have functioning solid state EV prototypes by the Olympics.
- 2020: Toyota claims it already has a mostly-functioning prototype.
- 2021: Toyota's solid state EV is a no-show for the Olympics.
- 2022: Toyota claims solid state hybrids will be commercialized by 2025.
- 2023: Toyota claims it will have solid state batteries commercialized by 2027-2028. They still claim 1000-km range, but with the qualifier that the BZ4X is understood to have 500 km range today instead of the 300 km measured by 3rd parties. So they are effectively sticking to their 2014 range prediction.
Toyota may well produce a solid state battery, but they've moved the goalposts enough times that it would be foolish to take them at face value now.
Toyota last week announced a partnership with energy group Idemitsu Kosan to jointly develop and produce a solid-state battery material called sulphide solid electrolyte, which the companies said was most promising in addressing the durability issue.
I won't put too much hope considering so mucn time they've wasted ignoring the EV market. However, given that they are having a partnership with Idemitsu Kosan, they might be up to something.
Nice. I hope they do the same for phones.
I, too, eagerly await the release of phones with a 1200km range.
Transformers! Robots in...phones
It's just a matter of throwing it hard enough.
How big will the chargers have to be to push that much energy that fast?
you could understand it as: the technology has the capacity to receive power that fast without breaking or catching fire