It will tickle down eventually. Just give it a few centuries or at least until I'm not responsible anymore
this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
450 points (100.0% liked)
Memes
1358 readers
49 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
Sure thing, Mr Reagan, Sir!
It's really bad here. Not ONLY do we do this, but we also subsidize oil like it's going out of style. Oh wait. It is.
We just can't quit that abusive oily dick, though. In fact we keep waiting by the phone hoping they will call us back.
Meanwhile, inflation is ridiculous, people can't afford houses or groceries.
But if prices don't go up, the profits won't increase! Why doesn't anybody think of the poor shareholders, trying to barely eke out an income from their holdings?
Like in germany where a state made tax cuts but mostly the rich people will Profit from it.
Germany is a good country if you‘re of german descent, white, educated, not disabled and mentally stable. Bonus points if you’re a man.
Everyone else can literally fuck off.
Why if I may ask? How is it worse if you're not one of those?
I mean it obviously depends on a lot of factors. If you‘re white, speak fluent german and don’t tell anyone you‘re an immigrant, you get bullied less.
But generally, being black seems to be a problem. I’m not too informed about that except reading the occasional report. Having facial features usually found in islamic countries is definitely going to get you in hot water with the older folks and the uneducated.
Depending on the part of germany, you‘ll likely be met with a baseball bat (east germany).
It is normal in germany to make racist jokes and to make jokes about disabled people. The german government commissioned a recent study about this (https://www.demokratie-leben.de/magazin/magazin-details/rassistische-realitaeten-in-deutschland-131) and it came to the conclusion that nearly 25% of all (5000 people I think) have been victim to racism and over half have been present during racist encounters.
This and the fact that the new german nazi party just got voted in second place in the federal state of hessen should tell you most that you need to know.
I'm actually from Germany, I currently live in the federal state of Hessen. The far-right party did get 16 percent in the elections yesterday (not quite 30 but thats still a lot) but it should be noted that a good portion of their voters seem to be voting out of protest.
Maybe its different in the countryside but I live in a big city and I personally have not experienced any racism (including from older people), some friends of mine have but its certainly not common. Thats still bad but I dont think its worse than in other countries...
Cant comment on East Germany but its certainly not normal to make racist jokes (or jokes about disabled people).
I dont want to make assumptions but it sounds like your perspective on Germany comes from a single person whose experience isnt really representative of Germany as a whole... just my thoughts.
Hey, now worries. We all make different experiences so yours may differ. Btw. I‘m sorry, they got 30% in the voting district I‘m in, not the whole state but they are second strongest there. I‘ll correct that. Also, I am part of multiple minorities, one of witch is being the child of an immigrant.
I‘m not talking about myself or someone I know though. I used to do sales a lot and traveled through germany for 20 years. I‘ve met hundreds of people every year and am telling you what I hear and see. To be fair, I met with people from all social backgrounds so someone from a more affluent class will make a very different experience.
Anyway, I grew up in the biggest city in hessen and although there are a lot of immigrants, the racist shit that happens there is insane. A friend of mine got sucked in with the local soccer club‘s hooligans and we ended up at a members house who happened to also be in the former nazi parti (npd) and had a red flag in their living room (you know the one). I never went to soccer again.
But I digress: Having worked in eastern hessen, I have had to deal with companies needing employees which I supplied. The most stated demand was „no immigrants please“ (around 2005). Racism is brutal in eastern (rural) hessen. I often had to tell my customers that they were opening themselves up to lawsuits with that behavior.
I now live in western hessen where the political climate used to be pretty chill but it is ramping up big time. Since I have had an autism diagnosis in the meantime, I have been sensitized to ableist commentary. I wouldn’t have picked up on it otherwise either.
Since then, I joined a couple groups in the area to talk about experiences. People are being bullied at work for their disability and frequently fired, stating the disability is the reason but giving another reason legally so the employer cant be sued. As a former employer I‘m familiar with this technique although I find it appalling.
Also, older people tend to send racist or ableist jokes around here. That is not something I heard but something that happens a lot since I happen to know quite a few. I always tell them not to send around shit like this but they’re oblivious why this is bad.
About eastern germany: I have visited leipzig, jena, east berlin, brandenburg and other places. The bigger cities are less racist but brandenburg is insane. People are walking around with shaved heads, black boots and nazi tattoos. I‘m not making this up.
I do agree that some people vote alt right out of protest but we‘re having a racism problem. The study doesn’t lie and neither your nor my account will change that. Racist crimes have picked up 10% in the last year btw.
Most people who don’t belong to a minority don’t really see these things happening here.
Thank you for xour insights! I guess I'm too young to have experienced anything around the year 2000 but if I understand you correctly, you're saying that most of the racism doesn't happen in public (directly targetted at the victims) but rather in between non-members of the minority group...?
You’re welcome. Happy to help.
Yes, most of it happens among members of the majority (which I can pose as if I keep quiet about myself and don’t show differences) or against a group that is not present. The beatings, spitting and raping happen rather rarely, if you get my drift.
This is true for nearly every (white) country.
But the degree varies. Yesterday, the new nsdap got elected as second strongest party in the federal state hessen. One of their leaders literally said to warm up the gas chambers again.
I think we really need the US to intervene sooner rather than later. Otherwise we’re definitely getting nuked at some point.
Germany is fully embracing fascism again at this point.
I think we really need the US to intervene sooner rather than later.
Hah! You wish.
Currently, they'd ~~join in with the nsdap~~ sell fuel and maintenances for the gas chambers.
Yeah, we Germans don't realize yet how close we are again. It sure feels like the last days of the Weimar republic sometimes. Mostly because our "normal" politicians fail horribly.
I completely agree. But I would go even farther. We have misunderstood and corrupted democracy to a popularity contest. I
t is legal to infinitely increase politicians salaries, to accept donations from lobbyist groups, to work into their own pocket. We pretty much legalized corruption.
Now the politicians are so out of touch that they don’t see how their country is eroding under them. The streets have holes, there is garbage on the back alleys but not on the main streets. All so it doesn’t look bad when you drive through but shit if you live there.
Even our former health minister, albeit relatively fast in his reaction, made himself and his husband rich with mask deals. He should definitely go to jail for that.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Not only white countries. I live in Brazil and here is also a good country if you're a man, white, educated, not disabled, mentally stable and of german descent.
The tornado is about to destroy the politicians and rich people's homes .... but dissipates at the last moment.
Politicians and rich people for the 200th time .... Huh, wow ... that was close ... sips drink and goes back in their house
Vote for other politicians. There won't be a revolution.
You mean the other neoliberal party?
No. Use surveys and you know when a third party is ready.
Furthermore if both parties are neoliberal then wasting a vote is not such a big problem.
No. Use surveys and you know when a third party is ready.
It will never happen as long as FPTP is in place. You might get realignments, but it will always snap back to two major parties and a smattering of parties that can at most be spoilers. Fortunately the way the US's voting works allows some gradual introduction of other systems like ranked choice that will not result in wasting votes.
Furthermore if both parties are neoliberal then wasting a vote is not such a big problem.
It is if you care about the actual tangible effects of your vote. Take LGBTQ rights. Democrats are, as a general rule, far better than Republicans. Wasting your vote because neither of the two significant parties does exactly what you want on some issues means hanging vulnerable groups out to dry. And for what, to feel emotional satisfaction?
And FPTP will never go away while it benefits the only folks who go to the street to fight for things.
If you want change you'll need to organize a movement to fight for it. Plenty of people out there wanting this system to change who would happily join movements to fight for this change but nobody is organizing such movements.
There's already a movement fighting to change how we vote. Governmental bodies on the local and state level are experimenting with various options. It's slow, quiet, and not very glamorous, but real progress is being made.
will always snap back to two major parties
So make at least one of them a party with reasonable policies
It is if you care about the actual tangible effects
Of course people care. That's the lock-in.
So make at least one of them a party with reasonable policies
Give them a voting base that they can do that with. You can disagree with policy all you want, but if the votes aren't there then it's hard for politicians to justify voting against their constituents. You'll just get the present situation where a smattering of politicians support more left policies, but most Democrats are center-left.
Of course people care. That’s the lock-in.
Okay, but the problem is that those third parties have no chance of winning. If you deny the closest viable party your vote, they will just move rightward to try to capture votes they think they can feasibly win without alienating the middle. Stubbornly sitting in the extremes gets you little in situations where you have to compromise.
Yes, create the voting base.
If democrats move right, they take votes from Republicans and make it easier for third party to win.
The problem is that leaves you with an unstable situation under FPTP. Let's say that our fictional third party, the Yellow Party, is to the point where 40% goes to Republicans (right), 30% goes to Democrats (center-left), and 30% goes to Yellows (left). Now Republicans are winning despite Democrats and Yellows forming a majority. So Democrats are going to split at some point, arriving back at an equilibrium of approximately a 50-50 split between Republican-Democrats and Democrat-Yellows. So in essence, you're right back where you started.
But you have a new party with better politics. Otherwise you argue that Democrats and Republicans already represent exactly the will of the population.
To be clear: I'm not against voting, I just don't think it's enough.
I literally had an election yesterday and the party I voted for did not reenter the parliament.
To me this means that something has to change so that it is enough.
Imagine not being taxed half your salary in exchange for good social services and amazing public transport infrastructure.
I am German.
They still have to pay way more than the others, a tax cut just means they dont have to pay as much more as before, still more (percantage-wise even) than you and me.