this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2023
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My title might be a bit hyperbolic, but stuff like this worries me. I love to read and I love reading on a kindle. This has been going on for a while, but it has now reached absurd levels.

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[–] UngodlyAudrey 73 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Yeah, I absolutely can't imagine being a writer who is trying to break in this space. Discoverability is going to be a nightmare going forward.

[–] Southrydge@vlemmy.net 28 points 1 year ago (4 children)

It's honestly heartbreaking considering how much work it must be to write a book and how scary it is especially with so many influencers and celebrities in the market now already making it harder for real authors to get noticed

[–] blindsight 40 points 1 year ago (12 children)

The two communities I'm most missing from going cold turkey on Reddit are niche book subgenre subs. I used to check them daily for new book announcements and discussions, and I got literally all of my "fun" book recommendations from those subs.

I guess they have a Discord group which is okay, but I'm not really interested in sitting in a chat room.

So yeah, agreed. Discoverability is a huge problem for authors already, even before AI-written drivel starts filling the Kindle store.

[–] Southrydge@vlemmy.net 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Isn't there a fediverse site for books? Book Wyrm? Or something like that, I wonder if that'll ever take off, but considering it's not very mainstream, maybe not

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[–] VoxAdActa@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This was a part of the equation when I decided to pursue traditional publishing instead of going the self-publishing route. I wouldn't be competing against other authors for the attention of publishers, I'd be competing against an ocean of ghost-written get-rich-quick schemes and bots. Sometimes gatekeepers serve a real purpose.

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[–] baggins 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is my daughter at the moment. Just gone 21, at university studying Creative Writing. Thing is she was doing so well with Biology etc. Changed about 3 months into her first year. She's had a couple of self published books on Amazon, nothing more than a dozen or so sales. She's going to find it hard to find full time work etc. in her chosen field.

[–] TheTrueLinuxDev 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I thought about bringing up technical writing, then I realized that it's a possibility that even that job isn't safe within the next 5 years considering the promising development of Spiking Neural Net. This is something I would probably suggests to your daughter at this point that she should probably reconsider her chosen field and try to enter biology or some stable job.

[–] Valmond 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

And work with AI not against it. I mean if AI can quickly make a filler chapter that can be tweaked, more time can be used to make it all get together etc etc. Or so I figure.

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[–] tanglisha 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I dunno, people have been trying to automate technical writing for at least 30 years. The results have been mostly garbage. I'm not sure an LLM is going to understand what's going on any better than the folks doing this work now, it tends to involve lengthy discussions.

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[–] livus@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

I guess the silver lining is that academic creative writing is a bit of a pyramid scheme, so if she goes the route of writing "literary" stuff that gets published by her university press, she will probably be able to get work teaching creative writing...

[–] SlamDrag 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

As someone who's been there done that, this is the worst time to try and get into academics in the humanities. English departments are downsizing everywhere. There's an incoming "demographic collapse" coming to higher ed by 2026 - i.e. birth rates went down between 2008-2011 by a large degree and that cohort is 25-30% smaller than previous years. A lot of small, tuition dependent colleges are going to fold. In preparation, non-essential departments are cutting people like crazy. STEM and business are money makers, English and History aren't.

Best thing you can do with a creative writing degree is go into corporate communications/marketing. Find a gig at an agency and do creative writing on the side.

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[–] somefool 6 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Honest questions: What worthwhile alternatives exist already? If there are none, what can be done? What can be built to improve discoverability of authors while moderating what is visible?

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[–] moon_matter@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I wouldn't classify these books as real competition. Nobody was really prepared for this, but it's a very solvable problem and there's no market for books full of word salad. I can't see Amazon or any store tolerating the existence of a product that doesn't sell.

[–] bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago

I think you've misunderstood this. Listen to the two recent episodes of behind the bastards on this topic if you want to get a good handle on it.

This is half the problem: these books ARE selling. I do try to be kind, but I can't deny that there are a lot of idiots in the world who seem to have a fair amount of disposable income.

They are buying these books for their children, or being duped by a pretty front cover, or a synopsis that sounds up their alley.

The books aren't 'word salad' so much as they are simply a cheap facsimile of actual stories. They have the elements of storytelling, munged together into a brain-breaking stew - but they aren't word salad, they just aren't human.

This whole situation is making me fairly uncomfortable, but also making me laugh. I love books. I love literature. The idea that one of the largest retailers in the world: an almost tech-giant that made all of their money flogging books to the masses cannot seem to clear its platform of fake books ghost written by computers with a little unscrupulous human help is simultaneously delicious and disturbing as hell.

I hate amazon with every fiber of my being, but this doesn't feel like a good omen for my children.

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[–] BarrierWithAshes@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We're going to return to the era of word of mouth discovering.

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[–] Hypx@kbin.social 41 points 1 year ago (5 children)

It's the Dead Internet Theory in action. While it stays a conspiracy for the Internet as a whole, it is definitely true at particular websites. There are many communities which are just controlled by bots and have no real people there.

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[–] megopie 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is going to be the real result of the large language model hype train, massive floods of basically worthless “content” made simply to pump metrics and fool investors.

I’m not saying that there is no useful applications for the tech just that none of those are particularly marketable nor do they generate a lot of monetizable utility.

And more importantly it’s not AI anymore than auto complete, spell check are. People insisting otherwise almost seem like they’re trying to start cults.

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[–] threeio 27 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I had to pull my kindle unlimited membership… it’s just a pile of crap.

[–] doctortofu@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

So like the rest of Amazon then? Never used kindle, but Amazon for physical goods has been a dumpster fire for a while - completely overrun with dropshipped garbage, to the extent that it's actually difficult now to find quality stuff in the sea of "brands" with random string of capital letter names, all using the same poorly photoshopped image...

[–] jmp242@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 year ago

Some large percentage of Amazon is just significantly marked up stuff you can get more direct via Temu or eBay. I never thought Amazon would reinvigorate Best Buy but if you want actual brand nane stuff, you have to go there. I also never thought it would be hard to discover actual brands online, but it is now.

[–] macstainless@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The kindle eink reader is amazing and absolutely great. However I don’t use KU and rarely buy books on it. I mainly use my library and read the borrowed books on it. As a piece of hardware it’s one of the few Amazon builds well. I’m surprised too.

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[–] quortez@kbin.social 25 points 1 year ago

It really sucks that we're facing the digital equivalent of climate change with regards to the internet and the content economy on top of the decline of the actual economy and actual climate change. It's all so much.

[–] Snapz 24 points 1 year ago (3 children)

"Folding Ideas" does amazing work on YouTube around exposing grifters in well structured, long form explanations of their grifts.

One of their videos looked into a group of growth hustler type folks, a pair of twins. Part of their scam was automating the process of creating fake books like this from start to finish to sell them online for passive income.

Highly recommend anything this channel creates. Worth your time to have a focused sit to watch the journey unfold (especially if interested in the main subject of this post).

https://youtu.be/biYciU1uiUw

[–] ConstableJelly 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I fully second this. Folding Ideas is a first-class educator. I would still be completely in the dark on NFTs and Crypto without him, and "In Search of a Flat Earth" completely changed my perspective on flat earth adherents (i.e., I am much less amused by it).

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[–] Spudger@lemmy.sdf.org 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Anyone that buys anything from Amazon is also part of the problem. Support your local bookshop while you still can.

[–] greenskye 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, most of my reading comes from authors who are literally only on amazon. And they're only on amazon because it's impossible to make a living trying to sell your book anywhere else. Brandon Sanderson has brought attention to this issue.

I'm supporting indie authors in a sub-genre that you literally can't even find in a physical bookstore. I get that bookstores are hurting, but I had to make a choice between small time authors and small time book stores.

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[–] moon_matter@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

A store cannot survive on good will alone unfortunately. As much as I like my local bookstore, Amazon provides more content in more formats. It's just better from every angle.

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[–] communication 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[–] livus@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

Be the change you want to see in the world!

[–] argv_minus_one 17 points 1 year ago

I, too, have snorted scornfully at this shameful state of affairs.

[–] AsepticFuturisticFox 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We should stop making rankings of books...

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[–] sparky@lemmy.federate.cc 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I, for one, can’t wait to read Apricot bar code architecture

[–] wildeaboutoskar 5 points 1 year ago

Sounds like an indie band

[–] sab@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If this indeed breaks Amazon then at least that is one silver lining of AI. It's a shame indie authors are losing their platform, but they'll find another.

[–] TheTrueLinuxDev 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It would make it even more important to have sites like Goodread where books are recommended by communities.

[–] sab@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago (11 children)

There's even a federated alternative, BookWyrm!

...I guess these days the Fediverse is my hammer of choice, and every problem with the internet is a nail.

[–] TheTrueLinuxDev 9 points 1 year ago

To be fair, it a REALLY good hammer.

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[–] ladychelseaofthevoid@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I would like to peruse a copy of apricot bar code architecture! Surely, it must be one of the books of all time!

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[–] Suedeltica@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Behind the Bastards just did a two-parter on this phenomenon but with children’s “books.” Icky stuff. Great episodes, but ugh that this is even a thing.

Part One: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000617646703

Part Two: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/behind-the-bastards/id1373812661?i=1000617949358

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[–] Zagaroth 5 points 1 year ago

Well, that's all the more reason to not try to monetize through Amazon. But Patreons seem to only be about 0.5% of the people who Follow a story on Royal Road. Well, I'll have to keep working on more incentives I guess.

[–] tyfi@wirebase.org 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I didn’t totally get it. So, people are using AI to generate fake books, but how are the fake books getting into the top 100?

[–] Rumblestiltskin@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago

Likely bots recommending them.

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[–] Hondolor@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Welp..this is a problem we have to expect now. What a time to be alive. The scary part is this is basically gen 1. Wait till the books are actually good

[–] worfamerryman 5 points 1 year ago

When I first heard of the Elon and Zuckerberg cage match, I assumed it was some deep fake thing. I literally had my first experience of not knowing if something was real or AI. I just assumed it was AI. Not until days later did I know it was a real thing.

[–] fidodo 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What I don't understand is who is downloading and reading these books?

[–] Hirom 12 points 1 year ago
[–] potpie 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

My guess is: adventurous readers who are intrigued by a small snippet, then figure it out on page 2 after they've bought it already.

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