this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2023
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Science Memes

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[–] trailing9@lemmy.ml 95 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To mention the obvious, it's the same network effect that keeps people on X and Reddit.

[–] trailing9@lemmy.ml 30 points 1 year ago (2 children)

To stay obvious, what's fascinating is that those networks are small, its members the most intelligent people available and they meet each other regularly in person at conferences.

Why do they accept the lock-in?

[–] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

They may be intelligent in their fields but that doesn’t mean they think thing through in every aspect of their lives. The status quo is the easiest thing to deal with they can devote more time to their careers/research

Unless their field is in social engineering, then yeah why are they going along with it?

[–] ZzyzxRoad@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago

Like the other response to this said, it's a little more complicated than "the status quo is easier" or "intelligent doesn't mean smart." This is a deeply ingrained system that's existed for a long time, and if you don't operate within it, you don't get to work in academia. You won't get to conduct your research to begin with, much less will you get to the point of publishing it without cooperating with these institutions. There are also powerful regulatory bodies like the APA and AMA who control just about everything in their field. You pretty much have to work for a university, and US universities are of course greedy and corrupt in their own right.

It would be like unseating the DNC, ending the electoral college, and expanding the two party system in America, but on a smaller scale. Plenty of Americans know that these things need to happen, but it's not something where you can just wake up one day and make the decision to overthrow the system as long as you just try real hard.

[–] Spzi@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago

Why do they accept the lock-in?

Looks like there is no good answer if we view them as one entity which could simply make up it's mind. But it's a bunch of individuals, who probably disagree at least over details. Some probably have individual ambitions or pressures, some may struggle to pay their bills or satisfy their family or even themselves.

And for each individual on the fence, it's always an advantage to still publish to the network while hoping the rest of the group abstains and establishes a better platform in the meantime. Would you risk publishing your finally successful hard work to an immature platform, where it might not receive the attention it deserves?

And because they're smart, they know everyone else is thinking the same. Now we have reasonable doubts in something which relies on trust.

Basically, game theory. The system will find it's Nash equilibrium at a point where every individual move will worsen that individual's standing.

To break this spell, you need agreements and contracts. Someone needs to work on that, negotiate and lobby for it. But who? Would anyone who would benefit from that step away from their actual work and work on that meta-system instead? Would anyone who would not benefit from that system work on it? Maybe this could be a research project for scientists who already study these topics. Otherwise, I don't know.

[–] torknorggren@lemm.ee 48 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In my discipline we only pay if we want the article to be open access. Are there journals that charge $1000 and still put articles behind a paywall?

[–] lol3droflxp@kbin.social 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

As far as I know, the big ones charge very high processing fees

[–] someacnt@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

Can confirm, I cannot even imagine paying for papers. Like why do you endure such an issue?

..Predatory journals?

[–] ComradeWeebelo@lemm.ee 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Publish or perish.

Academic publishing is in a very weird place and is very, very political. Its true that authors have to pay to have their papers published in most journals or conferences after they've been accepted, but like all things academic, this is highly dependent on the field. Some universities will reimburse professors publishing costs, others need to pay out of pocket or with grant/public funding.

While its true that there are open-access journals and conferences without such costs, I would wager that most well known researchers would avoid such avenues of publication due to prestige. The larger journals and conferences have review boards where the top scientists in the world sit on them. As a potential published author with such an outlet, its a great honor to even be considered. Most researchers don't want to take the risk of going with a less prestigious outlet if it will run the risk of smearing their image or damaging their ability to publish in better outlets in the future.

Source: Was a Doctoral candidate that ran the whole ringer besides the dissertation.

[–] spiffmeister@aussie.zone 24 points 1 year ago

While its true that there are open-access journals and conferences without such costs

To publish open access normally costs upwards of $3k USD as well. There's practically no point in the publishing chain where academics aren't getting screwed.

Let's also not forget that you have to review other people's papers for the journal for free.

[–] fossilesque@mander.xyz 5 points 1 year ago

Cake or death?

[–] Twelve20two@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And all those reasons are why I don't want to go into academia. It really feels like a the competition/politics/pissing contest of who you know is more valued than people coming together to push the boundaries of what we know and how we understand things. What are the upsides?

[–] ComradeWeebelo@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Besides myself, I have two other friends that also stopped at a Masters or dropped down to a Masters for similar reasons.

[–] Twelve20two@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 year ago

I'll try to keep it in mind that masters is more than enough (if I ever want to go back in the first place)

[–] swnt@feddit.de 30 points 1 year ago

That's why scihub is so popular

[–] TvanBuuren@feddit.nl 11 points 1 year ago

Getting paid in exposure.

[–] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Has there been an attempt at a charity-based distribution platform, á la Wikipedia?

[–] MNByChoice@midwest.social 10 points 1 year ago

The getting to keep your job bit is not quite right. Often, one also has to go find their own funding. Sort of based on the publications, but not necessarily.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Publish it to social media and you get the prestige and points without paying the $1000!

[–] jalda@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't think you can convert social media prestige points to academia prestige points

[–] lud@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

Unless you are popular enough, that you get honorary degrees

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

But why? If the science is accurate and reproducible, where it is published shouldn't matter. Like if I solved one of those unsolvable math problems and posted the answer and my work to Reddit or another popular social media, surely someone important would find out. Right?

[–] Tavarin@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Social Media isn't peer reviewed.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

But you're my peers! Review it! /s

[–] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago

Capitalism strikes again

[–] FARTYSHARTBLAST@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

rEsEaRcHiNg1!1!!