when lastpass screwed around with it's free tier offering, i switched to bitwarden and haven't felt any reason to use or even try anything else, it's rock solid
this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2023
151 points (100.0% liked)
Privacy
790 readers
31 users here now
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
Some Rules
- Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn't great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
- Don't promote proprietary software
- Try to keep things on topic
- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
- Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
- Be nice :)
Related communities
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
I’ve settled in with Keep Ass myself.
I too like to keep my pet Donkey to myself. I love it. 🙂
Also KeePassXC -- KeePassDX + Nextcloud + (encrypted container dropbox backup)
Why the need to encrypt on Dropbox? Shouldn’t KeePass be secured enough by itself?
i guess because of metadata. an encrypted file has no readable header, which the keepass database file probably has so that keepass knows how it is encrypted.
KeePass don't have much beyond a password hash for testing if you entered the right password or not.
still something that would identify it as a keepass database file, no?
The Dropbox is just a remote backup container. The backup is automated , gathers files from a few locations, dumps them in an encrypted box and push them to Dropbox once a day. The encryption bit is just for some other files which are not encrypted in their natural state.
Bitwarden, Been using it since 2021
Bitwarden - does everything, and is free. You can even setup a shared vault so 2 people can have access to shared stuff like online shopping and streaming sites. Takes a bit of admin work but it is not hard.
Sadly that second but requires the other person to care enough to make an account and not just text you when they need the password 😂
Just send a photograph of your screen showing the requested password of 25 random characters so they have to type it out. Guaranteed their next question will be where they sign up for an account.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Bitwarden gang
Proton Pass pisses me off. Proton is such a money grubbing company that takes FOREVER to release stuff.
I pay $120 per year for ProtonMail, and they want me to pay $180 to unlock the full Proton Pass. $60 per year, for something that BitWarden does for only $12 per year.
Not to mention you'll be waiting years for apps to come out. They're such a fragmented company. The Android remake is already so far past the estimated release date it's sad. Proton Drive Windows app finally came out, but fuck Mac and Linux users, I guess.
BitWarden is available for Windows, Linux, Mac, 9 browsers, iOS, Android, and CLI. - Premium is $1/month.
ProtonPass is available for iOS, Android, and 4 browsers. - Premium is $5/month.
Can't wait for Proton to release a few more half baked services with outdated apps and a promise to update them in a year, but then 3 years later there's still radio silence. Perhaps use your paid services money for developing in a timely manner? Holy shit.
Can't say I share your sentiment. I've been quite happy with their rate of progress over the years and the applications they offer. I've been using them since they only offered mail and haven't ever had any issues. I'd rather them take their time to do things right then try to release new things at a frantic pass. While they might not have all the bells and whistles, for the average user I think they provide more than enough value.
Also, your pricing is just completely wrong and off base. Pass by itself is $5/month ONLY if you pay per month. If you pay for 1 year worth it's $4 a month and $3 month if you pay for 2 years. And that's only if you for some reason only want to pay for proton pass.
Likewise, if you're paying $120 year for protonmail then you're most likely on the proton unlimited bundle for $10 per month paying for 1 years worth at a time. In that case you already have access to proton pass (and in fact all of their proton apps and premium features), so I'm not sure why you think you need to pay again for proton pass.
While I agree the proton pass pricing (even at 2 years) is high compared to similar companies, getting the proton unlimited subscription OTOH is (IMO) great value for money: the mail, password, & vpn are all great. The drive seems pretty good and useful but isn't something I normally use anyways, and the calendar is the weakest of their offerings (and also something I normally don't use anyways).
edit: I should also note, you don't have to pay for any of their services. You could get by just using the free versions of everything if you didn't need the extra bells and whistles offered for paying customers.
Can’t say I share your sentiment. I’ve been quite happy with their rate of progress over the years and the applications they offer. I’ve been using them since they only offered mail and haven’t ever had any issues. I’d rather them take their time to do things right then try to release new things at a frantic pass. While they might not have all the bells and whistles, for the average user I think they provide more than enough value.
They redesigned their Android app and missed the promised deadline TWICE and took 2 YEARS to release it. Now they're working on the Android remake, to add threaded view, to finally catch up to year 2023. Already missed the deadline once.
Also, your pricing is just completely wrong and off base. Pass by itself is $5/month ONLY if you pay per month. If you pay for 1 year worth it’s $4 a month and $3 month if you pay for 2 years. And that’s only if you for some reason only want to pay for proton pass.
It's $5 when I add it onto my Mail Plus for 12 months. Not sure what country you're from, but it's $5 in my country.
Likewise, if you’re paying $120 year for protonmail then you’re most likely on the proton unlimited bundle for $10 per month paying for 1 years worth at a time. In that case you already have access to proton pass (and in fact all of their proton apps and premium features), so I’m not sure why you think you need to pay again for proton pass.
Again, I am on Proton Plus. The second highest tier. The next tier is Proton Business, and it doesn't go higher than that. I need more than 3 measely custom domains, so instead of ProtonMail offering the ability to pay for just more custom domains, they nickel and dime you and force you to pay for the business account. Like I said in my initial comment, they are money grubbing.
edit: I should also note, you don’t have to pay for any of their services. You could get by just using the free versions of everything if you didn’t need the extra bells and whistles offered for paying customers.
Except the features BitWarden hides behind a $1/month subscription, Proton locks behind a $5/month subscription. So unless I want to switch from BitWarden to ProtonPass and LOSE features, then yes, I do.
Looking at their website I still can't figure out what plan you are on while still needing to pay for proton pass. The only plan I see that matches your $120/year (USD, I'm from the US) comment and matches your "more than 3 custom email domains" is the proton business tier which is $13-10/month depending on the number of months you purchase in advance. And in all cases you once again get access to all other proton apps and their premium services for free. Sounds like maybe you're on some legacy plan and would benefit (probably save money?) by going onto one of their new pricing structures? Not sure because I got upgraded to an unlimited plan for free back in the day (since i started when they only offered email) and so I'm still grandfathered in to a better price than is currently possible that includes everything.
It's unfortunate their android app seems to be 2nd class to their iOS offerings; sadly that's fairly commonplace, especially with small teams on tight budgets. I imagine that's also why their proton pass pricing is so expensive.
But once again, I don't see a need to slander and lie about a company that by all accounts is trying to actually do something about the privacy nightmare that the internet has become.
I thought I made it clear? I was on the Proton Mail Essentials ($9.55) and was required to go to Proton Business ($15) to unlock Proton Pass Plus.
An over $5 increase.
But once again, I don’t see a need to slander and lie about a company that by all accounts is trying to actually do something about the privacy nightmare that the internet has become.
Please tell me where I lied? Thanks.
As far as I can tell there is no mail essentials plan that costs $9.55 (talking USD/EUR/CHF which is all I can see). The absolute worst case scenario is $7.99/month per month (Business being $12.99). Furthermore, considering you are on the essentials plan it would seem like you'd save way more money using the individual plan (or family plan unless you have a large number of employees/users?). I suppose it's possible you are on some grandfathered plan that is more expensive because you have more custom domains (I seem to maybe remember that being possible back in the day?). But then I think that also would have applied to the individual plan, so again I'm not quite sure why you are on a business plan when all of your comments seem to imply you're an individual?
And honestly the crux of the issue is you made poor-faith arguments from the very start. You called them a money grubbing company and tried to pass yourself off as a regular user who's paying all this money and then having to get charged more. When in fact, for 99% of users your situation isn't applicable at all; and in fact you are on a weird, old, business plan (to which you'd probably save money switching to a new business regular plan [for $12.99 - $9.99] which supports up to 10 custom email domains + all premium proton services).
And looking into proton pass, it seems like the majority of the cost is because of the email alias service that comes with it. Bitwarden doesn't in fact provide that (though they do support integration of it) and a quick look at other providers that only provide custom emails it shows similar monthly fees (still less than proton pass to be fair).
So to me, it seems like a bit of unwarranted slander and lies (though I suppose, again, you could be on an old grandfathered plan; but it still doesn't explain how the "next step up" is $15) because of some beef you have against them.
As far as I can tell there is no mail essentials plan that costs $9.55 (talking USD/EUR/CHF which is all I can see).
Here's when you learn other countries exist. I am Canadian. I don't talk in USD, EUR, or CHF. I talk in CAD. My payment provider doesn't tell me I paid "X USD", it tells me I paid "X CAD".
I suppose it’s possible you are on some grandfathered plan that is more expensive because you have more custom domains (I seem to maybe remember that being possible back in the day?).
I am not, but you're correct about Proton offering to add more custom domains without having to change to a whole new tier. Another perfect example of how they nickel and dime. They realized they could squeeze more money by forcing people who need more than 3 custom domains to upgrade to a higher tier, than just to pay for the few extra domains.
You called them a money grubbing company and tried to pass yourself off as a regular user who’s paying all this money and then having to get charged more.
Again, they are money grubbing, because they removed the ability to customize your plan, and force tier changes.
When in fact, for 99% of users your situation isn’t applicable at all; and in fact you are on a weird, old, business plan (to which you’d probably save money switching to a new business regular plan [for $12.99 - $9.99] which supports up to 10 custom email domains + all premium proton services).
I am NOT on an old business plan. I am on THE business plan for $15. Again, not everyone uses USD, EUR, or CHF.
$12.99 USD = $17.65 CAD.
And looking into proton pass, it seems like the majority of the cost is because of the email alias service that comes with it. Bitwarden doesn’t in fact provide that (though they do support integration of it) and a quick look at other providers that only provide custom emails it shows similar monthly fees (still less than proton pass to be fair).
Since Proton loves tiers, offer a more expensive tier for the email alias. They should offer a tier similar to BitWarden with similar pricing, and then offer a higher tier for the email alias, something most people don't care about.
So to me, it seems like a bit of unwarranted slander and lies (though I suppose, again, you could be on an old grandfathered plan; but it still doesn’t explain how the “next step up” is $15) because of some beef you have against them.
For the third time. Other countries exist. I know it's a crazy concept, but it's true. I didn't slander anyone, thanks.
Sigh...Seems like every time Proton gets criticized, their fanboys always ensure to let you know that you're somehow wrong. I don't know how they managed to get recommended by so many people considering they provide unaffordable services for everyone not on a high income. I would try to migrate if I were you, they're pumping new features constantly despite their users wanting bugfixes and improvements to existing ones to gain more and more ecosystem users. It's a dark pattern. Look at Google and Apple.
"Oh, what about the free-tier?" It's a joke having to use their own clients when powerful open-source ones exist. "Oh, but it's because of the encryption that's protecting you!" I know how to use PGP, thanks. Plus, it only works if you're sending to other Proton accounts, and guess what? I don't even have control over my own key pair! (Edit: and when migrating away, I can't even bulk export my emails!)
Even the comments made by me and Dsklnsadog got vibe-based downvoted because they can't even bother to come up with a response on why our opinions were wrong. I'm glad I stopped using their services before I sent them any money.
Have you considered using just the 3 domains with Proton and hosting the rest yourself? Assuming you have some more important/primary mail domains than others.
I was already hosting them, but it's not worth it. I've been looking into switching to one of the other privacy focused alternatives that provide the ability to pay per domain, so you can add more without having to jump up tiers and pay for crap you don't want.
100% They attack so many fronts in the worst way possible.
Also why would someone who want enhanced privacy put all their eggs in the basket by trapping themself in Proton's ecosystem. Compartmentalize is important, and it ends up being cheaper too. Proton's pricing is cutthroat.
They are not in the privacy business. They are in the business of business.
load more comments
(2 replies)
I use KeePass and keep it synced with self hosting Nextcloud. I get the appeal of bitwarden, but I'm really trying to get off other people's computers.
You can host Bitwarden. It's open source. I do it myself.
Now the open source version is called vaultwarden
Now the open source version is called vaultwarden
Bitwarden with the self hosted vaultwarden server then, that way you get the nice bitwarden experience, apps, browser plugins, but all hosted on your own hardware. I run my vaultwarden server on my synology.
Vaultwarden can be easily hosted for free
Bitwarden. Tried Proton Pass but ultimately stuck with Bitwarden.
It has been my password manager of choice for quite some time and I didn't see any reason to change.
LastPass did not make the list, I am shocked, shocked, well ok not that shocked.
15 years ago the common logic was the most likely way for a password to get stolen is by writing it down and leaving it in an accessible spot, and somebody stealing the password there.
I don't think that logic holds anymore, and with the LastPass breach I think that's proof you want to step away from the cloud not towards it. Imo the most secure way to store passwords is to generate multiple random codes, use a portion of each and then just write those down.
You can also use a password manager that's not connected to a cloud. Or an encrypted usb stick. The problem with writing it on paper is, that people tend to use too short passwords or repeated passphrases. Using a really long master key and a key file with an encrypted database is safer than a cloud.
Usb sticks corrupts damn easily. Even faster carrying them around. Learnt that the hard way.
Or does anyone know about an usb stick that is practically immortal, that they can recommend?
have being using Enpass for a long time, it’s really good, you can choose any cloud provider or host your vault yourself, subscription based payment or one time only
I am also using Enpass since a decade or so and never had the urge to switch to another provider. Everything works, you got all the features (TOTP, pawned password auto-checks, native apps and autofill, storage of other things than passwords; …) and pricing is still very reasonable.
It can be fully used offline too (with WiFi sync) or with any local storage or online cloud option.
I bought it one time back then but still pay the small subscription fee since I don’t want Enpass to go away.
Many of these tools share practically the same set of features, so I like Enpass's ability to store files (i.e. certificates) and any kind of key/value pairs even more.
Your homegrown script opening a gpg encrypted file in runtimedir in a text editor.
I use KeepassXC for years, but lately I'm having problems connecting it. I use it only offline and the Firefox plugin doesn't work very well. It has many options, too many in my opinion. I don't like having my passwords in a company's cloud. The selfhosting is the solution, but i dont have to know
Personally I'm using Dashlane, I'm pretty comfortable with it and as far as I know there have been no breaches in security
I've been using gopass+Yubikey for years, with gopass syncing to a remote git repository. Works great on my phone too with Open Keychain+Password Store. I'm really happy with it, but do realize it doesn't fit into most people's workflow.
Put my wife on bitwarden though, and she's pleased with it. At some point I'll migrate her over to a self-hosted variant with Vaultwarden, but that's mostly because I prefer to have services in-house, not because either of us are dissatisfied with BW.
view more: next ›