this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2023
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Relaxed section for discussion and debate that doesn't fit anywhere else. Whether it's advice, how your week is going, a link that's at the back of your mind, or something like that, it can likely go here.


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submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by bermuda to c/chat
 

When I first joined this community I saw it as a respite from reddit where I was free to chill with people without being constantly expected to debate or defend arguments or anything. Just a forum where people are nice.

Lately though it seems every active comment section is filled to the brim with, to be frank, obnoxious people who want nothing more than to fight with you about everything you say. I think they're known as "debate bros."

I'm not saying debate shouldn't be happening but to be honest it's disappointing seeing it be the only thing occurring. I've tried contributing in other fashions but have been met multiple times with people trying to start arguments with me about things or get me to defend "points" that I didn't make. This in particular has been very annoying. I've reported every instance of this due to it not contributing but I feel as if that's not helping.

I like talking to people I disagree with. I like conversing with differing opinions. But I feel alone in that this isn't the only thing I want to do on a forum.

Again, I'm not trying to definitively say we shouldn't debate at all, but just pointing out how prevalent it seems to be. Id like to just converse with people without being expected to make and defend points. I feel like that's a major thing we should've left on Reddit.

If people want to debate then they can do that. I just dislike that it appears to become the base-level expectation for the instance.

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[–] Nullroad 93 points 2 years ago (5 children)

I've been on the internet long enough to know that any argument that goes on for long enough is going to get uncivil. You're also very unlikely to convince someone who feel threatened by your point.

So I've got a soft 'respond once' policy. if someone replies to one of my comments, I respond once to clarify my position and address anything important. If I have failed to make my point by then, then my writing ability will continue to be insufficient in n > 2 comments, and I am adult enough to let them have the last word.

[–] TheTimeKnife 13 points 2 years ago

Yeah this how I operate now. It's not worth my time to argue with people. I don't even post a second response a lot of the time, especially when the interjection is obnoxious.

[–] Lycan 10 points 2 years ago

Ohhh, this is a good policy. I'm taking this!

[–] Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 2 years ago

Great policy, thanks for sharing!

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[–] yote_zip@pawb.social 74 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I've noticed this everywhere on Lemmy - I don't think this is a Beehaw exclusive. My guess is that as Lemmy grows, more and more people are lurking and reading every post/comment you make. Most people will pass by without a debate, but if 1000 people read your post all it takes is one person to decide they want to start an argument.

[–] NightOwl@lemmy.one 25 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Absence of disable inbox setting for comments or threads like on Reddit is also a contributor I think, since if you are the type to have to defend your comment then it leads to a back and forth that can go longer than on reddit since you will be made aware of the reply with no ability to turn it off for either party.

[–] willya@lemmyf.uk 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 2 years ago

I love your mindset

[–] BitOneZero 24 points 2 years ago

I’ve noticed this everywhere on Lemmy

Same here. And it's been wave after wave of negativity of outside events flocking people. June Reddit API change, then Zuck @ Threads hate, Twitter to X shockwaves, and now Trump back on Twitter. It hasn't been people seeking out positive as much as it's been world wide web of anger.

[–] loops 10 points 2 years ago (6 children)
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[–] AttackBunny 27 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yes. Lemmy/kbin/etc as well. I was just thinking to myself idk why I’m even on here. It feels like every comment I make, I end up having to defend myself, no matter how innocuous the comment.

[–] bermuda 24 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I said it would be funny if the next elder scrolls games smashed expectations and was good, in an ironic kind of funny. I mentioned baldurs gate 3 due to it being also incredibly well received and was immediately met with a person who wanted to argue that the two games aren't comparable.

I agree with them but I wasn't even trying to make that argument in the first place. Just mentioned BG3 because it released like two weeks ago. Was very disappointing to see such a misrepresentation of what I said.

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[–] DJDarren 20 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] Arigion@feddit.de 17 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] DJDarren 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] cnnrduncan 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think you're both wrong.

[–] souperk@reddthat.com 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think I am always right!

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[–] NightOwl@lemmy.one 16 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I think the honey moon period is over for all instances and communities when people were motivated to comment with the goal of trying to encourage user growth by being nicer than they usually are.

Now that people are settling in they are more comfortable using the fediverse like they've done on social media. Which does change the type of posts and comments that now come out.

So arguments are expected for even trivial topics like games. It's good or bad thing depending on the viewpoint, but was expected outcome since motivations for posting was much different in the earlier days.

[–] gabe@literature.cafe 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I think that it wasn't a honey moon period, but more so people are getting settled in and attempting to bring in toxicity because some people just crave toxicity for no logical reason..

[–] cstine@lemmy.uncomfortable.business 16 points 2 years ago (2 children)

While I'm not a psychologist, I read far too much crap online, so take this as a layman's view.

There's been a lot of research around the dopamine feedback loop around social media, as well as the fact that arguing and "winning" is a major dopamine hit, so I wouldn't be the least bit shocked that a lot of the more toxic people are literally addicted to the dopamine that social networks give you that they're arguing and posting for no other reason than their next hit.

[–] gabe@literature.cafe 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Oh no, they quite literally are. You pretty much nailed the root of it, and also brought up a good point as to why for profit social media tends to become so harmful. Engagement is prioritized, and "winning" and arguing with people drives engagement due to the dopamine hit. That's why you will constantly see rage bait promoted across social media. It makes money.

[–] cstine@lemmy.uncomfortable.business 8 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I guess the real question, ultimately, is how do you deprogram the worst elements of this cohort so that they can like.... respond and converse like a normal human without having to argue every single thing and go on and on and on until they "win"? (Which, IMO, means the other person has just gotten tired of dealing with them more than anything else.)

I will happily admit I have absolutely no idea, and will also admit that I have on more than one occasion been That Guy Posting but I really really try to not let myself be.

[–] gabe@literature.cafe 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I think it's a matter of being mindful of it, creating an environment where it isn't acceptable, as well as making sure that the algorithms that tend to generate the most toxicity don't get added in.

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[–] Ignacio 14 points 2 years ago (2 children)

That's one of the reasons I block every community/magazine focused on politics, no matter the country they're related on. Although European politics tend to be more civil than US politics. But I'm tired of too much polarization and lack of civil discourse. Tankies don't help either, and luckily for us, exploding-heads is leaving Lemmy.

[–] NightAuthor 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I read an interesting thread about “I hate politics” being an inherently anti-minority/anti-oppressed stance. Because to the majority, “politics” is often anything related to race/gender/social-status/etc. so it’s a disservice to those causes to ignore them.

And while I belong to a couple of minority/oppressed groups, I also get the idea of wanting to not be constantly inundated with those debates.

I’ve got no answers other than it’s complicated and something worth thinking about.

[–] liv 7 points 2 years ago

It's well-docmented in Aotearoa, Australia, and the UK that low turnout favours the right so some centre-right parties - advised by Crosby Textor - try to create divisive issues because it puts voters off politics and voting altogether.

But, I think there's often a big difference between engaging politically in your community and society, and debating strangers on social media.

Like @Ignacio@beehaw.org, I block things called "politics" on the lemmy and kbin sites because they are mostly catch-alls for well rehearsed/rehashed arguments relevant to America.

I think it's possible for us to stand in solidarity with Americans without resorting to that, and in other countries their causes tend to come up in social media news so I try to take real world actions based on that, for example writing to our minister of foreign affairs to ask that NZ takes a particular stance or action.

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[–] FlashMobOfOne 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I've felt that lemmy.world has. It feels much more like vintage Reddit.

Beehaw I haven't experienced quite as much of the arguing for arguing's sake. If someone's arguing with me, they're usually doing so in good faith.

[–] liv 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

This is what I think too. Lemmy.world also have a strong downvote culture, which seems to encourage them to pile on to each other.

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[–] 1984@lemmy.today 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

It happens when you get more users, always. There are people who just wants to argue as some form of entertainment.

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[–] russjr08@outpost.zeuslink.net 9 points 2 years ago

I can't comment on beehaw specifically, but I do know I've seen it rise in popularity on Lemmy / The Fediverse, just as its generally prevalent on the internet itself (that's the core of the problem, its not really a Reddit thing as much as it is an "internet" thing from what I've found).

Like you, I don't mind debating something with someone when they attempt to do so in good faith - or if I post something incorrect then I'm happy to be corrected if someone isn't rude about it. I do also try to make sure that if I post something, that I'm either sure its correct, or I provide some sort of hint that I'm not 100% sure about it.

[–] JaeSuis 9 points 2 years ago

Yes, and I've been using beehaw less and less because of it.

[–] Arigion@feddit.de 9 points 2 years ago
[–] loops 8 points 2 years ago

Your father smelt of elderberries. :p

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