From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0
It comes down to price. You can buy used ThinkPads and replacement parts for them quite cheap a lot of the time.
It's been a while since I've looked at devices from places like System 76 but if I recall correctly they are still over a thousand dollars when a used ThinkPad T440P for example can be found for around two hundred dollars.
Framework laptops are interesting and I hope eventually the modularity allows the components to go down in price. Right now I was looking at a 16 (which all sold out within 3 hours of pre-order launch) but it comes out to easily over 3k CAD for a disassembled kit, skimping on RAM and an SSD.
I can confirm this with personal experience. Wife has T470 (if memory serves, something around that) for 100€. That was from previous work and they offered my old laptop for cheap, so it doesn't really count as average, but not uncommon either at least around here. I got myself T495 a while ago for 299€ from "public" market and have been purchasing couple years old thinkpads for decades now. There's plenty of those available, they work just fine for the workload we have for laptops (I got a separate desktop for more power hungry applications) and they've proven to be pretty reliable workhorses since the brand was owned by IBM.
Framework specially is really interesting approach and I'd love to test to their hardware, but they don't have Finnish keyboard available just yet and I can get several used thinkpads for the price of one framework, so as long as I'm using my own hard earned money I rather spend it on a known brand where I already know what I'm getting into and spend considerably less money while doing so.
Also with linux thinkpads tend to work just fine or at least there's documentation and howtos to get everything working.
I also agree with this sentiment. I got a used t440p which I used for years in school before upgrading to the framework 13. I still love my old thinkpad, but its now my cheap in home media server. I would agree that old thinkpad are easy to find and a cheap (but still very useable and still to some extent repairable) option for work and school.
Those linux laptops are too expensive and they are not available in some countries
Used thinkpad is much cheaper
Because of better accessibility. How so?
Because not everyone has the money to afford these new and expensive laptops designed for a niche market. They are still enthusiast-grade products, the prices speak for themselves.
Because not everyone comes from Europe / the US, so it's not easy to find these with affordable shipping.
Because these laptops are only normally offered new, which, for responsible and personal ownership, is excessive. There are thousands of used hardware lying around, why not put some life back into them instead?
It comes down to price, availability and ethical concerns. Unless money doesn't mean anything to you, why do you need a $1000 laptop when someone wants a device for higher education or personal casual use? The world doesn't need more rampant marketing of niche, hyped-up tech. While a fully-FOSS system may be the ideal machine for every Linux enthusiast, we live in a material world with finite resources and chasing after some unicorn laptop is unsustainable.
Because not one of those laptops have a TrackPoint style mouse.
You mean the nipple mouse?
Could be worse.
https://xkcd.com/243/
I always called it a nub. I haven't used one as an adult but I could definitely see myself calling it the clit mouse.
They can be found cheap as shit. I got a great t480 for less than $150 and another $50 I upgraded my RAM and battery. It's a really nice laptop and only cost me a couple hundred.
Cause thinkpads are cheap and easy to come by
Source: i work in ewaste
Cost and availability.
Most of those laptops cost over 1000€ if not even closer to 2000. And they don't seem to ship to all countries.
While you can get a good used Thinkpad for 500€ everywhere in the world.
Cost.
Older Thinkpads remain extremely capable and (crucially) highly repairable. The T series in particular is also better built (read: more solid chassis) than many others, including some on this list.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to support these alternatives given the absolute shock difference in cost. $300 bucks for a used T series gets you a lot from a customizability, repairability, and reliability standpoint.
The only good system on that list is the framework and it’s $2800 for my ideal version.
Last year’s Thinkpad P-series goes for around $400 on eBay.
Avoid purism at all costs. Watch Louis Rossman video on Purism mobile.
First of all I wouldn't use a pre-installed OS (I would always wipe and install my own for security reasons).
Secondly: Thinkpads (at least when I bought mine, last year) let you buy them without an OS and don't charge you for it.
Thirdly: the linked manufacturers above tend to be either US-centric and/or more expensive than Thinkpads.
I have no dog in this fight, but of the brands mentioned, I’ve heard of 1, and I consider myself fairly techy. Lenovo is a brand name that most people are going to recognize and implicitly trust (whether they should or not)
Because these are small shops that have limited availability outside North America, and are fairly expensive compared to Thinkpads which are widely used by corporations, and can be found pretty cheaply.
for a lot of people (me included), a cheap second hand thinkpad (or dell pro) with a light distro would be more than enough to cover their computing needs for years.
Lenovo makes great computers. They have amazing price-to-performance ratios.
Refurbished ThinkPads are awesome!
Sent from my ThinkPad T580 (with both an internal and removable battery, I get 10+ hours of battery life)
I usually grab a 3-4 year old Thinkpad every year or so for anywhere from free to 300 bucks. I pick them up from old corporate liquidation lots. Usually grab one that is a little dirty or beat up and then just clean it up and install my own SSD and upgrade ram from my stockpile.
I like some of the others on that list, but with how cheaply and easily I can get a Thinkpad, I just can't be bothered to spend more. I use my laptop mainly for code, and I do a lot of low-level programming so performance is usually way more than enough. The programs I write are extremely small and very efficient. Any processor from the last 20+ years will run what I am usually working on.
When I want to spend big bucks on a computer, I put that money towards my desktop where I do more gaming and some digital artwork.
For me it is mostly the price. I don't need much and a Seconds Hand ThinkPad ist enough for my needs and much less expensive than buying a New Laptop.
Most of these are pretty expensive. I got a used Thinkpad for less than 200 bucks, and it works great for the price and my use case.
My third world country only have Thinkpad around so. It is what it is.
None of them really match the ThinkPad reliability, cost effectiveness and after sales experience.
I'd recommend against any lenovo laptop after the T580 and T490. My company switched to dell since the lenovo laptops had so many failures and weird issues that we'd have to keep an extra one in stock for every 10 in use.
But if the older stuff suits your needs, go for it. Lenovo used to make great laptops.
Secret sauce: it's much easier to get an employer on board with buying you a Thinkpad as part of a bulk order than it is to get them to spring for any of these more obscure models as a one-off.
I agree with a bunch of the comments here but wanted to add that there's a decades-long legacy of good FOSS/Linux support on Thinkpads. Before any of these companies existed, Linux was running pretty reliably on Thinkpads.
I do like the newer options with these newer manufacturers, but I won't be getting rid of my Thinkpads any time soon. I'm running a Framework now too.
I'd say lack of marketing and higher price tags. Money / Performance ratio is also better with a decent Thinkpad.
Some of these options can't (or not without high markups) be bought and shipped to Canada.
Because it use common hardware and bought "en masse" by enterprises; they tend to be more supported with FOSS than other options.
I've been happy with my used T480 so far.
Availability for me, none of those brands are available in my country.
Because getting rid of Windows on a new device is half the fun
In Denmark (maybe all of EU?), you can buy them a bit cheaper without OS.
Edit: It's a Danish ruling from 2011, according to this. But it's not that you can buy the machine without Windows, but that you can get a refund for Windows if you haven't activated it.
The story mentions that that's been Microsoft practice for several years prior, but that consumers rarely use the opportunity.
Because I bought a Linux laptop from one of those vendors. It came with QubesOS but ran awful for it. I tried to debug but it fucking broke after 4 days.
That was 6 months ago and I'm still waiting for them to refund me after I sent back the broken device.
Never again. Thinkpad has my money for life if they keep making durable hardware.
Thinkpads are cheap and accessible basically everywhere. They are business-grade devices and you can get one when folks retire their machines. A lot of places practically give them away. They were just gonna get thrown out anyways.
Framework is dumb expensive - a 16 even skimping out on RAM/HDDs comes out to over 3k CAD, and that's for a disassembled kit -- pre-built with full components comes out to easily over 3.5k, which is like a MacBook price for the promise of upgradability down the line.
System76 are rebranded shitty components from Chinese manufacturers. They're not better for Linux than any general consumer laptop, and their entire position is basically branding regarding freedom and 1776. Ironic that a company so deeply American in nature basically just resells garbage from China.
Also, why the hell would anyone ever recommend Lenovo for anything after the Superfish scandal?
I don't like thinkpads anymore. They used to be great but Lenovo decided to kill off their best feature - the keyboards.
My fingers actually hurt when typing on a ThinkPad keyboard now. They are so shit.
I think people are nostalgic and they remember what the brand used to be. But I'm not impressed by them anymore. They keep scoring top marks at notebookcheck reviews however, but every new ThinkPad has disappointed me with bad screen or bad looks or feel.
I hope nobody recommends Thinkpads manufactured after 2020. They're pure garbage in so many ways, that there's no point to list them all.
Because most of these brands offer high-end laptops, the secondhand market is small and the new ones vastly exceed the needs of a lot of users.
Most people just browse the web, stream media, use productivity apps…these things don’t need much horsepower. The majority of people don’t need to run AAA games or graphics/video editing on their laptop.
Because of this, there is a great market for secondhand business laptops, and tons of great deals there. And of the big business brands (HP, Dell, and Lenovo), Lenovo tends to have the most compatible hardware (while also usually being very easily serviceable or upgraded).
I bought a Lenovo T470s with charger and a decent battery at a flea market on Father’s Day for $100 USD and he had a stack of them. Ordered some more memory and a bigger NVMe for $70, and now I have a very useful, practical, everyday laptop for less than $200, and it dual-boots a licensed Windows 10.
I've never met a Thinkpad that didn't like Linux :)
I'm sure it's not everyone's reason, but mine was "Thinkpad still has physical left, right and middle mouse buttons".
Price, keyboard and build quaility are my main reasons for buying a Thinkpad 3 years ago.
They are available for a good price second hand and their keyboard is the best laptop keyboard I've tried. Most of those Linux manufacturers use Clevo designs and thus the keyboard isn't amazing. Even if they design a laptop themselves it's difficult to nail the keayboard.
My next laptop will probably be from framework. But that depends whether I'm willing too spend as much and the other options available. And framework doesn't even sell laptops with Linux preinstalled.
I love my Thinkpad.
Lots of Linux devs love their Thinkpads.
The result is that Thinkpads are very well supported. They’re also generally very well made so I hope to use it for a decade.
Spare parts and resilience. Thinkpads are the most tanky laptops available.
Those are all expensive, used Thinkpad is below the ground-dirt cheap...$150?!
My Thinkpad Ultrabook was insanely cheap even with a docking station. I do donate to Pop OS once a year though as a thanks for their work and I recommend the same. It's like $12 a year on their site and they do great work.
Trying to get one of their laptops but thats in short order for me, for now.
Adding on:
