The issue with the water block is massive to me. Testing a prototype product on a GPU that it wasn't made for, giving it a negative review, doubling down on that negative review when called out, promising to return the prototype to Billet Labs, then SELLING the prototype to the public at their LTX expo. As Steve points out, if a competitor gets their hands on that prototype, it could put Billet Labs out of business. This is wild, and LMG should absolutely be called out like this.
this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2023
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Linus Tech Tips
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There should be actual, legitimate, law enforcement involvement.. Cause its literally theft at best, corporate espionage at worst.
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Until I saw that I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Even knowingly fudging numbers, while bad, is a temptation it’s easy to see someone trying to keep up with the content rat race falling into.
The corporate espionage on the other hand is fucking gross. Unless Billet Labs provides a statement that fully absolves LTT of any wrongdoing and states they OK’d the auction, I’m prepared to not engage with LMG at all anymore. Which sucks because I kinda like their water bottle.
I know we’ve only heard one side of the story so far, so I’ll reserve judgement. If it turns out as bad as it sounds though, they can get Anker’d
They should seriously get legal repercussions for this particular fuckup
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I've had beef with LTT since his series of videos where he tried to use Linux as a daily driver while making absolutely zero effort to understand any of the differences between it and Windows, then proceeded to whine about how it's not Windows. The part where he broke his system after it explicitly warned him he was about to break it and asked for rather thorough confirmation that he wanted to do so was where I stopped watching him for good.
There's being ignorant and then there's being stupid. I fault nobody for being ignorant of how something works when they first encounter it. I do, however, fault them when they demand changes be made without actually understanding the implications of those changes.
But that's how the typical user behaves. I love Linux and what you can do with it, but it's so tone deaf to think oridanry people are going to behave any diffeent than Linus did. People just don't have the time to take that effort you expect of yourself, only enthusiast have this kind of time. Other people are enthusiastic about other things. We need to all respect this.
Ugh, it's so frustrating. Linux will continue to be irrelevant to consumers as long as this attitude of "just put in the effort to understand" persists.
His series on linux got me interested in linux and a few weeks before the first ep came out I made the switch. I had been using linux as a brand new user for 4 weeks when watching his "review" of linux and I thought it was unfair. But linux made a good first impression on me and I am still daily driving it and now all my machines run linux.
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I started the video shocked that GN would do a video like this at all. I was 100% ready to blame GN for being petty. As I watched and listened, though, he made really good points, and I can't help but agree. Especially on the points where Linus doubles down on really bad takes instead of doing the right thing, insisting it doesn't matter (there are loads more examples than just Billet).
The one thing he didn't say that I wish he had, though, is to remind people that he's focused on industry journalism, not just hardware itself. This isn't a hit piece, it's an information piece, where he holds industry players accountable. Not unlike his journalism on Newegg and Asus. No, it's not positive, but it's honest, and it informs and benefits consumers.
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I got the sense that he didn't really want to have to do a video like this. He kind of said as much a couple of times. And in one section he mentioned he has kind of tip-toed around directly calling out LTT on specific screwups for some time. Like posting his results that contradicted theirs with the hope that people would notice but without directly going "looks at LTT's bogus numbers wtf"
I kind of felt like he got to a point where he couldn't in good conscience ignore it any longer because the pile of fuckups had gotten too big and too egregious with this billet labs fiasco.
I'm glad he did the vid because, yeah, he has done a good job of holding others accountable as you said, and this is exactly the same ethos. It's tough because I imagine you don't want to be seen as just doing hit pieces against the competition. There's an inherent conflict of interest at play. But given sufficiently good evidence and enough of it, I think that puts those concerns almost entirely to rest.
The kind of person to be doing reviews is someone who values the truth -- accurate results and sound conclusions -- over money, ego, fame and popularity, etc. Someone with a great deal of curiosity, skepticism, mental flexibility, and humility. Sounds like that is the near polar opposite of Linus.
I find it hard to believe, sometimes, that fully grown adults exist who cannot admit their mistakes which just reminds me of how damn lucky I am to work where I do, with a culture that encourages fessing up and fixing rather than covering up and blaming. Where the overwhelming majority of people I have ever worked with is about doing the right thing with an eye primarily on the goal rather than their own ego and ambition.
Yeah, he didnt do a video to roast LTT and he also didnt insult him.
He just stated what he sees as going wrong at LTT and how it could be fixed.
I stopped watching LTT a long time ago because of similar reasons, it was just so frustrating to see them start a project, barely finish it, release the video and the not finish it.
Other times they made a big mistake in the middle and continued with the video "because we dont have time to fix it".
I prefer Youtubers that may have months between videos, but when a new one is out, I nkow its going to be a good one.
And if they do a project, when it has an issue, they either continue the video until it is fixed, or they read it in the comments and someday we will get a follow up.
Linus's response.
I honestly fully stand by GN in this and while I think LTT should have had the opportunity to respond to the allegations before the video went live, since this is the proper Journalistic thing to do, it should be considered that ltt has a huge audience and influence in the tech sphere so I can only assume GN didn't want them to get ahead of the curve? It's sad if it has come to this.
I also don't know how exactly ltt could respond to the observations GN made since it's a piece about what happened in videos they posted. They can't really deny what happened. All they could do is lower their head and promise to do better.
Ugh, Hes trying so hard to double down on his comments, while giving plausible deniability to his doubling down, especially with the Billet block.
And its so fucking stupid to complain that the billet waterblock is expensive and stupid, considering ALL the stupid, expensive, wasteful bullshit hes done on his channel.. Its double stupid that hes still using his basis on using the wrong card that didnt fit it as his argument.
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The most noticeable thing for me are the constant annotations. Sometimes there are so many that I'm not sure why a whole video is up if it's half assed and they want to salvage it through bandaids.
Bot holy shit they are become sloppy and borderline corrupt. Thanks to GN for calling them out.
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Mann this was juicy. Tech Jesus was pissed, goddamn.
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LTT has lived long enough and grown large enough to see themselves being the villain. I suppose fame and wealth can corrupt a person easily, the arrogance in the response from Linus is disappointing.
LTT hasn't been a serious or informative tech channel for years, you don't watch their video for information but for entertainment. They try to right the course by creating the Lab team but miss the point when they don't change their mindset.
It's like Top Gear vs Fifth Gear back in the days. You don't buy a new car base on the reviews on Top Gear, likewise if I want useful consumer advice, LTT is the last place I look.
Is watching this video considered piracy if there are no ads to skip over?
This comment is where LTT started going down for me.
Bro, the simple fact that Linus failed to recognize that ads are most of the time forced on you, with no paid opt-out alternative, had me cursing at him.
It's not piracy if I can't pay to get the product unaltered. PERIOD.
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Damn this is eye opening for me. LTT was always my most trusted source for tech reviews. I noticed that they’d make little mistakes every once in a while, but didn’t realize it was part of a larger problem. I actually made a Ryzen 9 7900 buying decision recently because of this video which made it seem like the best value (especially compared to their very confusing 7950x3d review). After watching this GN video though, I feel stupid for not even thinking to check other channels before making a buying decision.
(Although honestly this is a major upgrade over my previous hardware, so even if it wasn’t the best possible option, it’s still a net positive for me.)
I really hope LTT takes this criticism seriously. It’s always gratifying to see misbehavior have consequences on the internet, but these independent reviewers are pretty much the only people on our side as consumers. I’d rather see a course correction than a crash, especially since LMG in particular has a uniquely powerful position and can have real impacts on manufacturers that benefit consumers.
I get the feeling Linus is just gonna double down on his bullshit on the wan show to justify it.
He already kinda did in the forums
Not a good look...
It was a long post, but he honestly didn't really say much in it. He just doubles down or strongly downplays the potential damage that can be done or even has been done. Pretty disappointing response, honestly. With that said, I would hope that people would do their due diligence and check multiple sources before making purchasing decisions and not solely make those decisions off of an entertainment channel - but even still, LTT can and should do better. The prototype auction situation is just a tragic failure and could be insanely damaging to Billet, even with LTT paying the prototype invoice. Disappointing all around.
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LTT used to be fun because they'd get a bit more creative than other youtubers and weren't to cringewrothy (I'm talking back in the house with the kitchen set) and occasionally would go on some bonkers home engineering projects that were just stupid fun. But as my IT career grew I learned just how disconnected they are from enterprise IT and just how focused on gaming hardware they are (and just how boring gaming computers are) and now that I have a degree in networking and they've been struggling to level up their networking game I really just shake my head.
I watch them for entertainment purposes but anytime they look at server-y stuff I'm more watching to see how bad they are than to learn anything or see anything cool.
Its fine that they have their niche, its fine that they're trying to expand out of it, and I wish them the best, but they've got a concerning cultural problem that needs to be addressed before they can effectively grow more
Edit: wow this seemed so big when it was just a accuracy and integrity issue but now that seems so small with the new revelations from Madison. I wish everyone working the grind at LTT the best and hope everyone who sexually harassed and groped can find a nice thorny cactus as their new office chair
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Dude sold out forever ago. ALL INFLUENCERS ARE JUST CORPORATE MOUTHPIECES.
My take on it:
We know that we’re not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it’s sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing.
Yeah, well, that’s one of the main issues addressed in this video: You are not transparent about this, when you swap out videos without notice or bury corrections in a non-pinned comment.
Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn’t materially change the recommendation.
If the listing is wrong, who guarantees the lab tests on which the conclusion is based on are not wrong?
The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes.
Take the time it needs to produce correct reviews then. Who wants fast but false results?
Followup on Linus' response from GN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3byz3txpso
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Guess this is why GN and a few others were not at LTX
Billet Labs has a good case to sue LMG
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Holy shit lol. I can never watch another Linus video again without thinking about this criticism.
Sadly this video makes a lot of sense… I’m astonished
10 minutes in, oof.
I used to like them, but last time I saw USB C iPhone on thumbnail for news video, which turned out to be absolutely not usb related apple news. That was disappointing.
I feel like whatever point Steve is trying to make here could have been a community post or even a short rather than what looks like a 45 minute hit piece on his competitor.
This appears (from the thumbnail and first few minutes of content) to be drama for the sake of drama. If anyone can summarise to the contrary, please do.
My first thought, but then I watched it. I saw some criticism for LTT a while ago but never figured out the issue was that bad. They blatantly mislead the viewers with shit information, worse I’ve seen the videos mentioned in the GN video. Gladly I saw the entire GN video and now I’m fully aware, and to say the least I expect an apology from Linus and a hefty compensation to the company that made the cooling block.
Yeah, I just finished watching it. I stand corrected - first impressions aside, Steve raises some important concerns.
I'm also impressed that he voluntarily de-monetized his own video, it goes a long way to highlighting the principles behind it. Not many content creators literally put their money where their mouth is like that.
I will be interested to see how LMG responds to this.
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Oh look, one of the people Steve talked out. Just dismissing legitimate criticism.
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Unfortunately I doubt there will be any consequences, even though other people probably would lose their jobs and never be able to work in the field again after that stunt. In the past it was just unreflected consumerism, wrong or inaccurate information etc, but this is terrible.
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